As I continue to train for the taiji comp, things are becoming clearer for me.
The process of making the form closer to the ideal in terms of performance stresses the body and builds the post-heaven power. It’s like building a vase or other vessel to hold water. I’m strengthening the vessel to hold and contain the internal power that other aspects of training build.
The internal aspects of the art act as the water that fills the vessel. They are the pre-heaven aspects of training. Without them, the art becomes empty and external. It’s just an empty vessel that way. It may be pretty, but it’s also superficial.
But without the external/post-heaven aspects, the pre-heaven has no way to express itself. It must take a form, and that form must be able to express the intent, sensitivity, etc. trained by the pre-heaven.
I used to think that the physical would be mastered first and then the more internal aspects would come later. And I think it is and should be largely like that. But this straight, linear progression may not be absolute.
Lately it seems to me that the training will spiral back towards the physical for while and then swing back towards the internal as understanding grows. This allows natural periodization, something that seems alien to CIMAs, unfortunately.
Vessel, water, vessel,….
19 responses so far ↓
1 Farting Monkey // Jul 23, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Yeah, having to work on making a form look all pretty and judge-ready is a waste of time. It’s a detour from your training, IMLE.
2 Dave Chesser // Jul 23, 2008 at 4:20 pm
If you’re going to do something, do it well. Simple.
3 John Kavanagh // Jul 23, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Hi Dave,
Good luck with the competition….I’m just curious as to why a form like Chen Pan Ling’s -I’m assuming it’s this one that you’re going to peform, or a version of it, would be entered for a competition etc? It is always held up as a form that in particular retains martial elements of all three major styles etc…
Anyway, it’s a wonderful form and I’m sure if performed with low and long stances that still preserve the distinct elements - it can only benefit anyone’s physical skills, strength and stamina..
Best wishes- John
4 Meow // Jul 23, 2008 at 5:53 pm
i gave an opinion on competitions in the other thread, but regardless, best of luck
5 David // Jul 23, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I would have to agree with some of your comments in the post. Focusing externally makes a pretty box with nothing inside. I would only say that by adhering to the principles learned in Taiji, the form becomes beautiful, never the other way around. In terms of competition, judges do not seem to be trained to notice what the “real” form looks like, it becomes much more like Wushu. With all of this said, if you’re going to do something, do it. Good journey.
6 neijia // Jul 23, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Same here Dave. I think most of us commenters aren’t into form comp but best of luck. Let us know what you learn.
Interesting about the non-linearity. I experience that and thought part of it may be my not quieting the mind enough so I flip flop back and forth. Eh.
7 Joseph T. Oliva Arriola // Jul 23, 2008 at 10:25 pm
To be a Hero
No form to form. Form back to no form. It spirals. It begins to look easy with practice.
We are not born heroes. We are thrust into circumstances. In the beginning, we are forced to compete. Some of us win and decide to jump back into the pool. Others, shy away.
Later in life, some of us “decide/choose” to compete while the majority/others sit on the sidelines.
Those who sit on the sidelines continue to be thrust “into life” no matter how hard they try to avoid it. The more they avoid it…the more they experience cowardice.
I am a man that feels fear. I begrudgingly choose to compete…to be a hero. But, the more I do it the less I allow others to determine my cowardice. It never gets easy. It only looks easy.
Each time, my form becomes a reflection of what is inside me. It only looks easy.
8 Jay Gischer // Jul 23, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I once read where Chen Xiaowang said training is like climbing a spiral staircase. To go up, sometimes you must go north, and other times you must go south. And you often find yourself back at the same point, only higher.
I feel this idea is part and parcel of the Taoist underpinnings of taiji.
As for training for competition, objectified goals are very valuable in focusing your training, be it a rank test in a Japanese system, or a form competition, or a sparring competition.
9 Steven // Jul 24, 2008 at 12:48 am
Testing Taiji in reality is key; nice work working for that. I worked with a fella yesterday who is so caught in Taiji Classics Fantasies that he cannot cope with force.
Jay, I agree that goals foster focus. I think that sometimes we must train with a more terrible reality in mind, especially if we want the guts to foster peace.
Who else but us who Test Reality?
Also, forms built with reality in mind are naturally more beautiful. The structures more true, the circular patterns more smoothe, and the shakes, more explosive!
Keep up the good work. And I hope you win by your standards, not by the judges’.
10 YMAA.com // Jul 24, 2008 at 1:49 am
Spiraling water vessels…getting cosmic, man.
That’s great to hear you’re joining the competition.
Great Chen Xiaowang quote, Jay.
11 wayne hansen // Jul 24, 2008 at 5:04 am
when i first met my teacher he stopped me practicing while looking in a mirror.
he said it would only make me look good to others not feel the form from the inside.
this did not mean that he did not correct each move over and over and in great detail.
no movement was taught untill the preceeding form was correct.
it is ok to be judged but who is the judge and what is his ability to see true form that is the question.
12 Scott // Jul 24, 2008 at 5:58 am
I’ve often thought that if my taijiquan form was really high level, I’d put the entire audience to sleep.
I guess you could call it unconventional potency.
13 Dave Chesser // Jul 24, 2008 at 8:37 am
I’m not pretty-ing up my form, nor am i wushu-ifying it.
The CPL competition form is exactly the same as the 99 only shorter. It takes the first 37 and last 5 moves of the 99 and stitches them together.
Chen and Huang laoshi put it together so that it would correctly reflect CPL taiji and not some exaggerated wushu idea of CPL’s taiji. It is 100% traditional taiji.
The idea of entering the competition then (and especially training for it) is to make my CPL as correct as it can.
I would advise many of you to seek out these traditional form competitions. They are excellent ways to help you perfect your forms — an obviously vital part of taijiquan.
14 Dave Chesser // Jul 24, 2008 at 8:45 am
But regardless of how people feel about competitions, i hope those feelings didn’t get in the way when reading this post. I’m not sure if anyone noticed, but it wasn’t about competing.
15 Hermann // Jul 24, 2008 at 9:42 am
That`s true, Dave, no need for competition to train on the outside and inside of one`s form. We allways were told of the pendulum, once left, form, once right, neigong, slowly comming to a halt in the vertical, in high age and with perfect execution of the moves.
Hopefully, you won`t be disappointed with the judges at the competition. Having been there and having watched last years `competition, I was not convinced of the judges`qualities.
So don`t take it too serious, if they don`t like the CPL form.
16 BL // Jul 24, 2008 at 10:28 am
Both the man and the animal have disappeared, no traces are left, The bright moon-light is empty and shadowless with all the ten-thousand objects in it; If anyone should ask the meaning of this, Behold the lilies of the field and its fresh sweet-scented verdure.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/mzb/oxherd.htm
for me this answered many aspects of my own training. Some might find it helpful.
17 Farting Monkey // Jul 26, 2008 at 5:40 am
“Later in life, some of us “decide/choose” to compete while the majority/others sit on the sidelines. ”
I used to compete and I always won, but now, reformed, I feel that competitions are useless. I don’t need a competition to motivate me and I don’t need the type of training required for a tournament to draw me away from more relevant training. But what’s with this bullshit about some being “heroes” and everybody else who isn’t competing sitting on the sidelines? What nonsense! You think if one isn’t on the court one is on the sidelines watching, wishing one could only be courageous enough to join in the game? Ridiculous.
18 DavidK // Jul 26, 2008 at 11:53 am
Good luck, Dave. It’s funny to see everyone’s baggage vomiting forth just because you want to make your form better and chose a competition as motivation.
19 Dave Chesser // Jul 26, 2008 at 1:34 pm
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