This is a decent example of a softer way to do randori. I think more taiji people should be working towards this rather than us just pushing people back. This uses the off-balancing skills in ways that put the opponent down without using lots of force or upper body strength. This type of could also be practiced for much longer than more vigorous examples because it’s easier on your body. And the subtleties aren’t glossed over because of excessive force.
Is anyone doing this type of work in aikido, judo or other arts?
11 responses so far ↓
1 Patrick Parker // Jun 1, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Yeah, I enjoy these guys’ videos. So far as I know they are not part of our exact aiki tradition but they seem to be working toward a very similar practice to what we do.
our randori is done much like this - soft, smooth, flowing, with an emphasison staying safe, positioning, and avoiding speed and strength to make techniques happen.
I agree that this is similar to the taiji that i’ve seen before that i’m able to identify as ‘good’ though i don’t have much (any) basis to judge the goodness of taiji.
There are several folks out there working on a synthesis of aiki and taiji.
2 Jay // Jun 1, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Here’s my question. These types of vids look very nice and seem to work wonderfully when you have two people playing that aren’t out to hurt each other. How does this stuff work against non-cooperative, active resistance “partners” like you’d find in a bar fight? Cause this stuff is very pretty but it doesn’t show me how you’d take down the 300lb biker strung out on PCP and coming at you with a broken bottle.
3 Brian // Jun 2, 2008 at 12:26 am
Well gosh darn it, i’ve yet to see a 300lb biker on that angel coming at me, and neither have any of my friends. My best advice is to hang out at cleaner bars haha I doubt any traditional methods would work very well because of what PCP does to your body and mind (ie how it allows you to take ridiculous amounts of damage and keep going). But correct me if i’m wrong, the idea of this kind of practice is to develop a kind of relaxation and feeling that bridges the gap between just forms and push hands towards a higher level of sparring (ie full contact).
brian
4 William // Jun 2, 2008 at 1:56 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nrKwmucaF0
5 wayne hansen // Jun 2, 2008 at 6:40 am
if you are fighting 300 lb bikers on drugs,get a gun.
these guys are not highly skilled.
their use of angling is lacking.
they use inappropriate strength.
the attacker is unrealistic.
and the hand changes are clumbsy.
6 Chad // Jun 2, 2008 at 9:44 pm
This looks like what we practice as tuishou.
7 Jay Gischer // Jun 2, 2008 at 9:55 pm
There are two distinct questions. Can the techniques being shown work on a large, strong, aggressive opponent? I think the answer to that is definitively yes. The other question is can a particular individual get them to work on said large, strong, aggressive opponent? This answer varies.
I don’t think the drills being shown, by themselves will get you all the way there. I also think that you won’t ever do it if all you do is focus on full-power sparring, like sans shou or something.
The skills and techniques shown in this video require great precision, timing and awareness to execute correctly on a non-cooperative opponent. It is generally easier to develop those qualities on someone who is somewhat cooperative.
8 meow // Jun 3, 2008 at 5:46 pm
agree with jay here, its merely an intermediate step in developing the ability to feel your opponent / apply correctly, the next stage in training would be to go faster
brian, what are you learning if your techniques dont do much damage to the opponent? (im aware of a force spectrum too btw)
9 Jay // Jun 5, 2008 at 12:27 am
correct me if I’m wrong, but we are supposed to learn a martial art right? where we learn how to defend ourselves in situations that are unpredictable? this is why people say taiji folks can’t fight - cause we spout off glib answers like that.
Tim Cartmell says taiji taught properly will allow functional self-defense within less than a year. I highly admire his approach and his philosophy, and agree that this HAS to be the case if taiji was ever used for fighting (which we know it was). For you guys to basically say well it doesn’t work that way and it’s supposed to be like that is ignoring the martial aspects of a fighting art.
10 Chad // Jun 5, 2008 at 7:17 am
Kudos Jay, absolutely correct.
11 Dave Chesser // Jun 5, 2008 at 11:14 am
Jay,
There are more than two options. This isn’t an either/or choice.
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