Confession time: I find it hard to have respect for people that don’t work with some form of resistance.
The martial arts world is big and there’s room for a lot of different perspectives. Whatever people want to practice is fine. To each his own.
But talking about borrowing the other person’s force is easy. Quoting classics is easy. And practicing in little cliques and cults where everyone thinks the same way is easy.
Practicing IMA against people that don’t do what you do is hard. That’s where the real material is found. That’s the real meat of the practice.
I’ve met with many people and I often find that what people do works just as long as the opponent does exactly what is expected of them.
So let’s just be clear on this: if someone needs the opponent to do what they do in order to make their stuff work, then what they do isn’t worth much is it?
But I see this all the time. “You’re pushing the wrong way.” “You’re using too much force.” “That’s not push hands.” “Don’t grab me like that. Grab me like this.”
As a whole, we spend far too much time practicing with people that share our ideas and not enough time getting outside our little worlds that we have created.
6 responses so far ↓
1 wayne hansen // May 11, 2008 at 6:51 am
resistance is fine as long as it is along the line of force.
in otherwords imagine practicing an inside to outside block to your opponents right straight blast with your left hand.
if the force of your opp. is travelling to your head in a straight line the force will come out through the fist and will be easily taken off line.
however many opp. will on contact push towards your centre making it hard to move it to your left.
you might say this is reasonable non co-op training.
in real life all he will be thinking about is taking off your head.
the inward push is just part of a ma game that the i am more deadly than you crowd play.
if you wish to work against an inward moving force you get your opp. to throw a roundhouse punch,a rh punch can be so subtle that it appears almost straight.
what we are trying to do in training is pick up the subtle changes in an opp. in as near to realistic situation as possible.
grab me like this is to show you how one thing works in one situation.
my teacher is a fighter, raised in boys homes,worked on railgangs on the nullabor plain in the aus.outback,he has a scar acrossd his upper arm4 inches wide made by a gerka kookrie knife,yet he taught me with the grab this method.
at no time did i ever doubt his ability to go to the line.
just make sure when you are working with non cooperation you are not learning off clumbsy boxers.
when you meet someone with real skill there are no questions to be asked.their presence and ability answers all.
2 meow // May 11, 2008 at 4:56 pm
hey dave,
i think its fine to learn set responses when one is starting out their training, in order to learn how their art deals with various angles, ranges etc.
Imo though, there should be more sparring / interplay between various styles, the problem is getting over the ego / face, before that could happen.
resistance, its definitely good, but i dont think its so good for learning how to place ones technique, its only really good for learning to deal with adrenaline. The downside to it is not following through with technique (if doing non contact) and if doing full, that one is limited by rules / trains bad patterns (in the sense that, one training for combat goes for! the areas protected by rules, as they want to damage their opponent as much as possible (eye, throat, groin, striking of joints etc), it also doesnt train the mind (as no one will attack with intent to maim their opponent). Thai boxers dont spar full k.o, they hit bags / pads all day, and retrain reactions (so they hit hard, but dont get hit hard) (cant have your breadwinners injured right)
3 meow // May 11, 2008 at 4:56 pm
kool to see something combat related too
4 Jay Gischer // May 12, 2008 at 2:39 am
But I see this all the time. “You’re pushing the wrong way.” “You’re using too much force.” “That’s not push hands.” “Don’t grab me like that. Grab me like this.”
When people push hands, there is typically no agreement on what is being practiced or learned. Hence there is no reference as to what is appropriate resistance and what isn’t.
If being light and soft gives an advantage, then if I’m heavy and hard, you should be able to beat me, and thus enlighten me. When you find someone who can do that, study with them.
If you can’t then you have to try to figure it out for yourself, and the only way to do that is to let them be the heavy, hard one by being even lighter and softer than they are, and see what happens.
5 wayne hansen // May 12, 2008 at 4:52 am
heavy and hard is ok if we allow striking as part of pushing.
if not the clumbiest ox wins.
its like tkd ,spinning kicks work well if the rules preclude strikes to the back.
bending forward from the waist works well in pushing if we preclude uppercuts, knees ,neckgrabs and grappling.
6 Resistance and limits // May 12, 2008 at 3:51 pm
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