Below is a great quote that sums up how I feel about the continual erosion of Chinese culture. Yes it’s brittle and certainly not perfect, but it was successful, has produced a lot of beauty, and was perhaps a real alternative to the West. Source here. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
“The fate of this extraordinary civilization saddened me. For literally thousands of years it had followed another path, had confronted life, death nature and the gods in a way unlike any other. The Chinese had invented their own way of writing, of eating, of making love, of doing their hair; for centuries they had cared for the sick in a different way, looked in a different way at the sky, the mountains, the rivers; they had a different idea of how to build houses and temples, a different view of anatomy, different concepts of the soul, of strength, of wind and water. Today the civilization aspires only to be modern, like the West; it wants to become like that little air-conditioned island that is Singapore; its young people today dream only of dressing like “businessmen”, of queing up at McDonald’s, of owning a quartz watch, a color television and a mobile phone.
Sad, is it not? And not just for the Chinese, but for humanity in general, which lose so much when it loses it differences and becomes all the same.
If someone is able to look back at the history of humanity a few centuries from now, he will surely see the end of Chinese civilization as a great loss: because it ended a great alternative, whose existence could perhaps have guaranteed the harmony of the world.
Not by chance was it the Chinese who discovered that the essence of everything lies in the equilibrium between opposites, between yin and yang, between sun and moon, light and shadow, male and female, water and fire. It is by harmonizing differences that the world works, reproduces itself, maintains its tension, lives.”
22 responses so far ↓
1 Flagon // Apr 21, 2008 at 10:28 am
Yes I think it is a bit sad, maybe something can be retained by us in the west, albeit in a modified form.
2 M. Reynolds // Apr 21, 2008 at 11:15 am
I assure you that there are those of us in the West who, though not Chinese, will do what we can to save what we can. But perhaps even China must pass and its treasures go to foreigners-a fear that started all this modernization.
“China’s in the heart, Jack. Wherever I go, she’s with me.” -Egg Shen.
3 Joseph T. Oliva Arriola // Apr 21, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Syncronicity of thought
Today’s lecture in class was about homogenaity. I told my students that “a set” is simply one point on the spectrum. It is performed “in one way”.
The more people in the crowd that do it…the more it is written in stone. There is no variation of the variables in terms of speed, height, width etc. The crowd demands that it must stay the same.
JS Bach uncovered the holy grail of standardizing octives into repeatable standardized events. The english industrial revolution though “machinery” standardized the screw. It led to the accordian, which spread to the Romania and further east. It changed the eastern natural sounds into western music. China was one of the few remaining places that had maintained the pentonic scale. Their music will be lost and MMA will be the standard of their martial arts.
Now, globalization has created a homogenus world. We are all returning to the mean.
4 Morgan Buchanan // Apr 21, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Keep in mind that we are also throwing the baby out with the bathwater on a whole series of traditional western skills and arts as well - handwriting, memorisation, classical learning, etc…
I think that sometimes people invest heavily in eastern culture because they aren’t aware of the depths of their own. I include myself in that list, having studied chinese culture and ima for 15 years I’m now spending time reading western classical philosophy, history, etc..
There are many parallels between ancient western and ancient chinese world views. The greek tutor at an organic gardening course I recently participated in mentioned that in greece they have a saying - “there’s nothing bad that you can’t find some good in it, and nothing good that doesn’t have an element of bad” he was working out what to do with an unattractive water pipe that ran accross the top of his garden and then decided to grow a flowering vine around it. How’s that for yin/yang theory?
Doesn’t hurt to save some of the gems of western civilisation as well if you have time after the chinese ones : )
cheers
morgan buchanan
5 Ed // Apr 21, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I don’t think that we should try to preserve it for the sake of preserving; there are some gems in Chinese culture for sure (CMA, for one); but there are a lot of bogeys as well (too much pride (”face”) in life, too much competition (one reason why they are trying so hard to raise their GNPs and buy Rolex watches and Porches to show off to their “friends”), and so on. I seriously doubt that China could have given the world “harmony” - this is just wishful thinking that beautifies the mystery of the East (I think that there are even MORE assholes in the East per capita than we have in the West - if that’s possible. Lots of big, fat, heavy chips on peoples’ shoulders).
Singapore has actually done a fairly good job of blending good things from various cultures together. (Their English is deplorable, though…)
6 meow // Apr 21, 2008 at 4:41 pm
wow what an awesome topic, and awesome posts by everyone
Joseph, youre probably right about returning to a mean, although with globalisation and a wealth of cultures to draw from, i doubt it will stay set for very long.
7 Jay Gischer // Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 am
I think those things that are most worthwhile about Chinese culture will be preserved, but not out of necessity, and not necessarily by Chinese.
I only have to think back to my own life. As a child in the US, I knew very little about China and Chinese culture. The Chinese food that we ate was a pale imitation of what is available now even in my remote home town.
Things are mixing around in global culture, and yes, that does produce some homogenization. But it also exposes some old ideas to new people, just as I have been exposed to CMA, and Chinese culture and film.
To me, this is a process described in the Tao de Ching and the Tai Chi classics. And I have no doubt that those documents and ideas will live on.
8 tom // Apr 22, 2008 at 9:08 am
What specifically makes it sad? If the Chinese people were capable of creating/evolving a great culture before, why should we assume that they cannot do so again–in whatever fields of endeavor we consider? I don’t think the only choice is between slavish imitation of “the West” and servile homage to centuries past.
9 Dave Chesser // Apr 22, 2008 at 9:31 am
Tom,
One of most intriguing questions for me is why is the culture that produced the yijing so resistant to change?
If you look at the writings of Confucius and Lao-zi you always come across the idea of the sage — the guy with “the” knowledge of the dao. This idea got extended to the emperor and today somewhat to presidents, bosses, etc. So even though you have what looks at first glance to be a liberating philosophy, it just ends up as another tool to enforce rigid hierarchy.
Lao-zi even seems to be advocating a type of primitive communism IMO where the masses are kept ignorant of the “five tastes,” the ” five colors,” etc. to keep them ignorant and manageable.
I agree with your last statement, as well.
10 Ed // Apr 22, 2008 at 10:53 am
That is the problem - many people seem set on either emulating the West as much as possible, or preserving their own “culture” - whatever that means. These days, China is dreaming of becoming the center of the world again, and ugly nationalism is rearing its head - thus, the second option is more popular these days, but of course people use this option to support the parts of their culture that they agree with.
For example, Confucianism (well, neo-Confucianism, really) is being lauded and spread these days; but who lauds Daoism? Or even Moism?
If we teach people to be more Western, do we teach them to be like the Conservatives or the Liberals?
Obviously, we have lots of “culture” to choose from, as well as the ability to create new culture as well.
11 neijia // Apr 22, 2008 at 9:41 pm
> why is the culture that produced the yijing so resistant to change?
That question assumes “culture” as a monolithic, unchanging-over-time thing. Some portion of the culture created the yijing. It seems to me that Confucianism is the more prevalent philosophy underlying the culture, with its emphasis on filial piety, etc., despite anti-Confucianism in Marxism in recent history.
This author’s conclusion is based on offensive, romanticized Orientalism. The cat is out of the bag. People want tv’s and cars and so on. The real problem now, with the rapid development and industrialization of China, India, and the rest of the developing world, is not loss of these philosophical ideas and ideals, but sustainability of the world, period.That is not a problem solvable by Confucianism or Taoism.
12 Joseph T. Oliva Arriola // Apr 22, 2008 at 10:36 pm
“Quote: The real problem now, with the rapid development and industrialization of China, India, and the rest of the developing world, is not loss of these philosophical ideas and ideals, but sustainability of the world, period.That is not a problem solvable by Confucianism or Taoism.”
Romantic Idealism vs. Actual Doing…I’m with you. It’s not the big things…its the small little things we have actual control over.
13 tom // Apr 23, 2008 at 12:04 am
“The cat is out of the bag” . . . more like the dragon is out of the bag.
14 neijia // Apr 23, 2008 at 2:05 am
At the current hour, it’s still Earth Day over here in the U.S. so probably thinking more green than usual.
On a tangent, some people say that the main culture now, the popular culture in the developed word is technology-mediated or -enabled, or -driven culture, as demonstrated by Dave’s blog and our comments. That may mean, rather than a “regression to the mean”, that there is a “long tail” with greater variety. For example, FN has a subculture I prefer over that of other blogs/groups. Incidentally, statistics is better at explaining hard science than social science (read: human behavior). It assumes a normal distribution, not a long tail, but people are strange.
15 josh // Apr 23, 2008 at 5:06 am
I agree with the above quote that “This author’s conclusion is based on offensive, romanticized Orientalism. ” It does assume a monolithic “Chinese” culture, which is to be forgiven to some degree because this is the image that the Chinese themselves have been selling to Westerners ever since the country opened up. The “culture” of China has been in constant flux throughout its history. In fact China faced this influx of barbaric Western customs before when Buddhism was introduced, along with many elements of Indian culture, and the Chinese lamented that this would be the downfall of their culture. They survived that and hopefully they will survive this.
However, when witnessing something like this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ocRw4ZllqzA
it’s difficult not to sympathize with the spirit of the article!
16 FOBAR // Apr 23, 2008 at 11:25 pm
My teacher explained it to me like this:
the way alot of westerners try to emulate chinese is akin to if Japanese started wearing cowboy hats and carrying lassos around. It looks kind of silly. It also represents a very small sliver of American history and culture.
We are entering a new age where culturs have alot of contact with each other. This is going to stimulate cultural borrowing all over the place. Its inevitable. Rather than being close minded and elitist about one culture over another, we should just take what each can give the other.
17 wayne hansen // Apr 24, 2008 at 4:54 am
there is a great difference between wearing the hair and skin of the tiger and being the muscle and bone.
remember bruce ,adopt what is usefull.
no group can save a culture detirmned to change.
china is not our disneyland to stay as we want it for our entertainment.
18 FOBAR // Apr 24, 2008 at 8:46 am
“china is not our disneyland to stay as we want it for our entertainment”
Very well put.
19 Flagon // Apr 24, 2008 at 11:40 am
Yeah i’m peobably guilty of that. Everytime I go back to China I mourne the destruction of one of the old neighbourhoods. I guess I don’t have to live there. I do remember though when the developers here in Sydney were stopped by the builders labourers union back in the 70s. I think today most people are glad we retained quite a lot of the old buildings.
20 Scott // Apr 24, 2008 at 11:58 am
Fobar,
San Francisco has Cowboy Sushi! They even serve a peanut butter roll!
I’ve been in whole clubs in Japan where everyone is wearing cowboy outfits, I found it rather lovable.
Oh God, log cabins or motor homes, what’s the difference?
The Sogdians are gone. The Chinese are still here, it is too early to morn.
And hey, if, as a region you are not participating in industrial commerce yourself, making yourself into a Disneyland for me and the rest of the growing world of ignoble indolent princes and billionares is a very smart idea.
21 neijia // Apr 24, 2008 at 10:59 pm
I think they are also starting to get into some of the historical preservation now.
22 wayne hansen // Apr 25, 2008 at 5:18 am
i was there with jack in the front lines on victoria st.i was there on the front lines in the patricks dispute.in the end the unions were destroyed and the developments go on.
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