I like open discussion. I think everyone benefits. Some people have told me how naive they think I am in upholding that principal. So be it. But I’m the same person in private that I am in public. If I have something to say, I’ll say it. And in saying it here, I give others the chance to respond. I expect nothing less in return.
However, some bloggers are discussing my posts on protected blogs and forums, and naturally since they’re protected I can’t read what’s being said let alone respond. I think that’s pretty rude.
One particular blog that does this often is Taijikinesis.
The writer of that blog (who goes by the name of Zenmindsword) and I disagree on many things, but I always enjoyed sparring with him. I felt that we learned a lot from each other in the exchanges. For some reason, he felt the need to go completely private and password-protect his whole blog. Fair enough.
But if someone is going to link to Formosa Neijia, then they should give me the courtesy of seeing what is written. Or at least provide an email address so I can discuss my concerns.
For example, receiving a trackback to a post titled “Season for BS” is extremely rude.
So I ask that people who wish to link to my posts either provide access to those posts or stop linking here. Thank you.
To everyone else, sorry for having to take out the trash in this post. Sometimes it’s necessary. Back tomorrow with an on-topic post.
20 responses so far ↓
1 Hermann // Feb 19, 2008 at 11:32 am
Totally understood and agreed! I also was a regular visitor on Zenmindsword’s open blog, but couldn’t and wouldn’t follow his new qualifications for entry to his protected stuff.
I feel it is a pity, in fact there aren’t so many of us living and training in Asia, so why exclude each other? But of course, Zenmindsword has got the freedom, even I can understand your concern and reaction totally.
2 CReidS // Feb 19, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Does a blog make a difference if no one reads it?
Isn’t the point of having a blog to place your writings in public?
3 tom // Feb 19, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I respectfully disagree. I read taijikinesis. ZMS writes about specific topics both relating to his particular practice of Wei Shuren’s taijiquan and to his (considerable) other MA training. If an item on the Internet bears on a subject he’s writing about, he’ll link to that item. What’s wrong with that? He’s directing his more limited group of readers to something he’s writing about. He’s directing readers to Dave’s more open blog here at formosaneijia.com . . . I know that Dave has at least a couple of more readers as a result of ZMS’ references. ;- )
I guess if ZMS is commenting on something you’ve written here, Dave, and you can’t see his comments, then of course you’d be concerned. But it’s really no different than if I commented to someone else about something I’d read here at formosaneijia in an e-mail. The only difference is my private e-mail wouldn’t have a trackback to your blog. ;- ) The net effect perhaps is that you can hear the Internet “whispering” about a post there relating to formosaneijia via the trackback, but can’t make out what is being said.
To CReidS, people do read taijikinesis. The point of having a blog is to place your writing where other people can read it, but there are different degrees of “public.” Blogging services like Wordpress offer password protection for a reason, and taijikinesis is not the only blog to avail itself of that option.
Other less “public” Internet conversations happen on Yahoo lists and private-server discussion lists like Mike Sigman’s QiJing list. Do those link to formosaneijia? Not via trackback, but Dave and his blog are active subjects of conversation.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it, Dave. You’ve got great topics, great discussions and great commenters contributing to formosaneijia. Being an open blog works for you, and for those of us who read formosaneijia. Thanks for being here.
4 Dave Chesser // Feb 19, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Tom,
So any publicity is good publicity, eh?
Actually I do see links back from the Qijing list, etc.
“I guess if ZMS is commenting on something you’ve written here, Dave, and you can’t see his comments, then of course you’d be concerned.”
Yes, this is the case. Especially when the post is called “Season for BS.”
I was willing to let a few of these slide when I first saw them, but the titles of the posts now don’t sit well with me.
If someone has something to say, let them say it where I can respond. I don’t think that’s being unreasonable.
5 tom // Feb 19, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Interesting . . . well, I don’t blog, so I don’t have to live with the concern about publicity. [insert wry grin here]. I’m not faulting you for being concerned.
You could always e-mail zms: zen.mind.sword@gmail.com . Just a suggestion. I’m off of this topic now.
best,
Tom
6 Alver // Feb 19, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Once upon a time I published a couple of articles on a particular style’s family history. These articles were all based on Chinese materials written by Chinese people who were brave enough to put their bylines on the published material in some established Chinese MA magazines (as opposed to those, esp on the net, who write abt anything they like but don’t dare to publish their real names), even though what they published were against conventional belief.
What amazed me were the tons of emails (which for some strange reason were all from USA) who insulted, criticised and basically threatened to harm me (should they ever get the chance to) for writing BS that went against their version of the family history, even though THEY had nothing to back their claims up except “my teacher said so”.
#1 - The Americans are so passionate abt freedom of speech but yet those who criticised me were Americans. Makes sense?
And these were those who bothered to hunt down my email address to insult me, how abt those who were insulting me but I don’t know abt it? Do I lose sleep over them?
If I don’t want to get criticisms, then I shouldn’t publish at all.
(The emails I had from non-Americans were, on the other hand, respectful and courteous, even from those who disagreed with me.)
#2 - If we have conviction in our beliefs why should we care abt what others say?
#3 - If indeed we are talking BS, shouldn’t we be gentleman (or lady) enough to admit, apologise, and change for the better?
It has been years and more research has come out to show that the conventional view was indeed wrong, so who’s talking BS now? If I had got upset back then wouldn’t I have wasted my time and energy over something I cannot control?
So, why be so sensitive abt the whole thing? Time will tell if we were right or wrong. In fact, 10 years later, we may not even remember such an incident took place! I had forgotten abt that incident until your post reminded me of it! haha…
7 Joseph Crandall // Feb 19, 2008 at 10:35 pm
#1 - The Americans are so passionate abt freedom of speech but yet those who criticised me were Americans. Makes sense?
You’ve got this wrong. Freedom of speech in America is only “my” freedom of speech, not yours. :^)
8 cmc // Feb 19, 2008 at 11:48 pm
I don’t think you are naive for having an open blog. I think it’s a good thing.
zenmindsword hides behind his walls to protect himself from what he himself does. To comment on the views of others.
It’s a pity as he sometimes had some interesting things to say.
9 scott // Feb 20, 2008 at 3:56 am
You’re doing the right thing by airing the laundry in public.
There is no such thing as a truly “Open Blog,” everyone at least blocks spam, most bloggers use coded or secret in-group language occasionally.
I’m the subject of derision on a closed Yahoo Group and I only know about it because people have told me in person. Fortunately I have defenders in that Group too.
From a legal point of view, if the comments effect your livelihood you can sue, but that’s meaningless across international boarders…and in most situations a huge mistake.
Basically your dealing with rudeness, so make it public–and hope he changes his ways.
Tom, email it is not. It is more like he is giving a speech at a private club with a lot of people in the room.
10 tom // Feb 20, 2008 at 4:24 am
Scott, Dave would have no legal basis to sue, even if he and zms were both in the US–and certainly not under existing international law. Don’t give out bad or misleading legal advice.
Don’t overestimate the impact of discussions on taijikinesis, Dave. It’s a very small readership. Again, if this really bothers you, why don’t you e-mail zms and at least make the effort to resolve it civilly? It might prove more productive than simply protesting about it here–which just gives zms something else to post about at taijikinesis.
It’s only a suggestion. It’s too bad either of you have to waste time on it.
11 Buddy // Feb 20, 2008 at 8:28 am
Personally I think this guy is a worthless coward. If he links to Dave’s blog he should repay in like kind. It comes down to put up or shut up, particularly if his password nonsense is Johnny-come-lately.
12 wayne hansen // Feb 20, 2008 at 9:29 am
ever since i started training i have seen those who would not engage in a fair exchange.
ask to see what you have learned and not show their own stuff.
talk behind your back,but quite as a lamb in your presence.
engage in a contest with agreed rules but step outside when it suited them and claim victory.
the devil can quote the bible to his own ends,so it is silly to worry about all the freebooters and charlatens out there,just forget them and do a little extra training.
one of my teachers chau chi quam would say,
dont throw a stone at every dog that barks.
13 tom // Feb 20, 2008 at 10:01 am
Opinions are like dan tiens–everybody has one.
So now the FN cheerleaders will pile on here, because they can–and zms will harden his determination to keep his blog closed, because he can. And whatever chance of resolving Dave’s concerns about what is being posted at taijikinesis is pretty much ruined by the puerile snarls of some who don’t have a clue what is at issue.
It’s a shame, because taijikinesis has a lot of value, much of which resonates with many of the insights Dave has expressed in the past few months. zms has a wealth of practical martial arts experience with some outstanding teachers and fighters. Dave does a superlative job bringing Chinese MAs and cultuure to the fore. Maybe some day . . .
Neither Dave nor zms need me to defend their positions or mediate between them. They are the ones who will build a bridge or not.
14 Dave Chesser // Feb 20, 2008 at 10:30 am
“if this really bothers you, why don’t you e-mail zms and at least make the effort to resolve it civilly? It might prove more productive than simply protesting about it here–which just gives zms something else to post about at taijikinesis.”
Tom,
If I get another trackback from him, I’ll just ban his IP address from the blog. You seem to have not noticed that I’m not the one being un-civil here.
15 Dave Chesser // Feb 20, 2008 at 10:42 am
Tom,
No offense, but I’m not sure you have an idea of what is at stake. I also wouldn’t call the comments so far “puerile snarls” nor would I call the commenters “FN cheerleaders.” LOL. I can’t imagine that I have any of those.
But what would you call ZMS’ posts that linked to my blog like “Season for Bullshit”? In two parts, no less. Doesn’t THAT sound puerile to you? Does to me.
You seem to have forgotten that it takes two to build this bridge. I’m not the one making offensive posts. ZMS is. Why can’t you see that?
Outside of a gesture from him, my threat stands: another trackback from him and he’s banned.
16 tom // Feb 20, 2008 at 11:01 am
Your choice, Dave. I was just presenting another point of view.
17 Dave Chesser // Feb 20, 2008 at 11:14 am
And I thank you for that. I really do. You’re one of my best commenters. But it’s not just MY choice, is it?
I’m leaving a window open for reconciliation, as my last comment showed. But it takes effort from the other side, too.
18 Zac // Feb 20, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Many years ago I found out that a school teacher was very, very upset with me because I offended her very, very much. I knew about this about FIVE years after the said incident happened, and for the life of me I couldn’t recall if said incident actually happened! Turned out she was mistaken all along, and for FIVE years she (an adult) carried a grudge against me (a teenager then) when nothing actually happened. Makes sense?
So, Dave, if I may ask, have you actually read that blog? Was it actually talking abt what you think it is? Is there any chance that you had misunderstood all along?
My school teacher’s experience is a constant reminder to me to clarify things before getting upset (but then, will getting upset help matters? but that’s another story…)
btw, I use BS on my friends a lot, but in Hokkien it means “cannot”, not bullshit. For all we know maybe that particularly offensive “BS” refers to something else, but we won’t know until we ask, won’t we?
What’s so difficult about clarifying matters with the person rather than flame him in a public channel? Who’s the more offensive person here?
You don’t even know the blog contents and you’re already writing your conclusions here. So who’s the uncivil person here?
19 Matt // Feb 21, 2008 at 1:40 am
Sounds like rudeness, or perhaps just a mistake (some admin forgot to turn off automatic trackbacks on the blogging s/w, as they certainly should ahve in the case of a private forum). Anyway, I think you should ask the webmaster there, and only then get irate.
20 Tom // May 18, 2008 at 11:09 am
So, 3 months after this brouhaha . . . any more trackbacks from taijikinesis.wordpress.com or internaltaiji.wordpress.com?
Some people, it turns out, are not worth defending (wry grin).
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