Look around the web and you’ll find an endless stream of clips: an old man pushing some younger, obliging students as an example of “fantastic taiji.”I ask all of you: is this what you want out of your taiji? Is THIS what you train to do? Is this what people in their 20’s to 50’s should be training for?
I ask these questions because this is absolutely NOT what I train for. Not in the least.
There are so many problems with this stuff.
First, every single one of these clips shows applications against WILLING, COMPLIANT students. Every single one of them! Do the techniques then seem easy and effortless? I wonder why? Does everything the old man tries seem to work? Again, I wonder why?
NO student tries to resist this stuff with these old guys. The students are TOTALLY compliant. What would happen if this stuff were done against someone who was really resisting?
I won’t bully an old man. No way. I would be compliant with him, too. I really believe in respecting others.
But seeing clips like this and especially training like this builds a false sense of what is capable and necessary to use taiji. Gullible students end up believing that all they need is relaxation, listening skill, and intent, and they can go out and use taiji. This is completely false.
Second, some might object that the gentlemen in the clip is old and that I’m expecting too much. That’s exactly my point. Should what elderly folks are capable of doing with their bodies be the standard for what younger people do?
I’ve raised this point in relation to Chen Pan-ling since the pictures in his book were taken when he was very old. Yet, most people who do his form assume that we all should just do those postures like we’re in our 70’s. Should we? Should we not do taiji that is appropriate for our age?
Following from this I have to ask: is there a single MMA fighter on the planet that couldn’t take this guy in the clip? Again, some people will object that I’m picking on an old man who isn’t capable of defending against something like that. Once again, that is exactly my point! Should we let those who are incapable of actually using their taiji be the model for those of us who want to actually use it?
I think that what these guys are doing is great FOR THEIR AGE. But if you’re younger, you need to be training in ways that stress the body beyond what most of these old guys are capable of. If you want to do martial taiji (as taiji was INTENDED to be done) then the training you need to do goes far, far beyond being able to gently find a compliant person’s center and give them a little push that you see in these clips.
The myth of the deadly old man who has meditated in a cave in China for 50 years but can supposedly take out an entire NFL football team all by himself is BS! It always was BS and always will be.
Do you want to waste 50 years of your life with BS training?
41 responses so far ↓
1 Hermann // Jun 5, 2007 at 9:43 am
No, I don’t want to.
And the funny thing is, I saw H.H. Huang performing this stuff in the late 80s here in Taiwan, when one of his student was overly eager, kicking him sitting on a chair and they both tumbled all over. Very embarrassing for all people present, I was laughing out loud, so I earned a lot of angry responses.
Still, Taiji has so many aspects, that I question alltogether the martial aspect as main aim in high age.
Then, I want to be respected by youngsters for my wisdom and relative fit body, but I for sure I wouldn’t want to sparre with all those young energetic people.
Why should I? So tiresome and hopefully I have conquered all enemies by then, especially myself, enjoying a totally relaxed presence on this world.
Taiji also can meen to stay in harmony with your surroundings, not every moment and every encounter must be a fight.
2 chessman71 // Jun 5, 2007 at 9:50 am
Hermann,
Agreed. As you get older, the taiji naturally changes and becomes something else for you. I’m totally okay with that.
My point is that people need to stop looking at these clips as methods of developing martial taiji. What these old guys show in the clips will NEVER lead to martial taiji, nor is what they’re doing good for people who are younger.
There is taiji for older people and taiji for younger people. Younger people need more rigorous training.
3 Flagon // Jun 5, 2007 at 11:24 am
How do you know that these guys are faking it?
I didn’t push with Master Huang so have no way of knowing.
Flagon
4 hakchigi // Jun 5, 2007 at 11:55 am
You’re right -these kinds of vids are such a cliche now. Of course, it all right for one to demonstrate power and skill -but that’s not fighting… I have the same feeling watching the aikido vids -do these master’s disciples get used to just assisting all the time? It’s dangerous to build false confidence in one’s disciples as well…
5 chessman71 // Jun 5, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Flagon, nobody said anything about faking it. That wasn’t the point.
6 omni // Jun 5, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Well this is a ‘demo’ of the master againist his students, so they drop left right and centre out of respect for him. BUT maybe when he actually is taking his class he expects the real deal when its student vs. student… but since I don’t know what happens in his classes, im left guessing…
7 Flagon // Jun 5, 2007 at 3:33 pm
where i come from “totally willing and compliant” = faking it.
8 Frédo // Jun 5, 2007 at 5:12 pm
This extreme example leaves a very interesting question, how far are we, ourselves, compliant with our master and our elders and how compliant are the younger with us?
Being compliant with your teacher, even a little bit (unless he is demonstrating a particular technique or principle of course), is the worst thing that you can do to him and to the school. It is very easy for a teacher to lose total contact with the reality. A lot of masters, some very known, have ended up in this path in their old age.
It is very important in TS (since it is the example shown) to ask oneself if the reason for pushing away someone is technical or psychological. If one can use both, the second only tends to make your opponent compliant by making him believe your level is greatly superior to his, and, thus, does not reflect your level in the exercise, just your capacity to put others in an inferior state of mind.
My 0.000000000005 Hongkies
9 chessman71 // Jun 5, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Flagon,
Okay, I see what you mean.
Guys,
I see a little more going on here. Some of this is legitimate, just not useful for fighting. I’ll write more about this aspect.
10 seeker6 // Jun 5, 2007 at 8:48 pm
I think this is a good post because it is questioning some things many people accept without thought.
However, even though this kind of excessive compliance takes place in internal martial arts, does this mean that everything the teacher is teaching is bullshit?
Does that mean that none of the things taught could be useful for fighting?
I certainly think that all students of martial arts ( and anything else ) should use their own intelligence and judgement. I also think that many comments on martial arts assume that the student only studies from one teacher. In this case what you say has more relevance. Particularly in tai chi, I think that no one teacher is able to offer everything to students. Therefore it is necessary to choose different teachers from which to learn different aspects of the art.
11 wujimon // Jun 6, 2007 at 1:36 am
I must admit, one of the things that lead me to taiji was this idea of being a ‘deadly old man’. I imagined the days when I’d have a long beard and gray hair hobbling around with the ability to bounce people off me at a whim.
This imagery is mysterious and alluring to and still is to this day. Are the demonstrations real? Is this ability possible? Perhaps. For me, why close doors on something that *might* be possible. It’s the dream that keeps me going.
On the flip side, you asked about the younger folk practicing like their elder counterparts, aka ‘old man taiji’. I think false sense happens when we think we can achieve the results of masters without the time and effort they put in themselves. In other words, trying to get to the destination without making the journey.
12 Chris @ Martial Development // Jun 6, 2007 at 3:32 am
Have you met anyone who sat in a cave for 5 days, much less fifty years? Or should we accept your final statement purely on faith?
13 thomas // Jun 6, 2007 at 4:16 am
hi Chris:
Who was your remark directed to?
14 Darius // Jun 6, 2007 at 7:48 am
I think we need to ask ourselves one thing: do we approach our training with a critical mind and attitude? Obviously the above clip shows almost a mass hypnosis on the part of the students as they jump to the ground at the slightest touch. I think that when you spend a lot of time with a teacher, it becomes very hard to be critical and it’s much too easy to go along with your teacher. This is especially the case when there is a very strong power and age hierarchy between student and teacher. The clips show something else though: it’s not simply students complying passively. They are acting.
I’ve met teachers who made me feel like I have no stability or root whatsoever - like a floating feather. I’ve met teachers who are so good at neutralising and going with my attacks that I’ve felt that they didn’t touch me and yet completely neutralised me. I’ve flown through the air and not understood how it happened because I did not feel my teacher’s hands anywhere on my body. BUT, anybody looking would have seen that there was contact and would have been able to break it down and analyse how it all happened. The movements and techniques of the teacher above cannot be broken down and analysed because they are based on students’ mental willingness to be subdued rather than their teacher’s gongfu skills.
15 chessman71 // Jun 6, 2007 at 8:46 am
Wuji,
My point is that the belief is a myth — it just isn’t possible. These guys can have some great abilities in some areas. But often, the goals are lessened and/or changed at the unconscious level to fit their age. In other words, we mentally shift what we expect to see from them without our knowing it. Naturally, we don’t expect them to be able to defend a double-leg takedown, but do we take that fact into account in our training? Why should we train like them?
Even if you want this ability when you get older, you likely won’t get it by training in these ways. My next post will point to that.
16 Chris @ Martial Development // Jun 6, 2007 at 8:47 am
My comment was directed towards Dave. If you’ve never sat in the cave, or met anyone who has, then how can you know what purpose it serves?
None of us should be pretending that empty-handed Taiji is practical fighting, and using that false premise to deride other people’s interests–even if those interests approach the world of make-believe. “Reality-based”/”keep it real” folks are living in their own kind of fantasy world.
17 chessman71 // Jun 6, 2007 at 8:47 am
Chris,
Give me a break. The belief in deadly old hermits in China is widespread.
Nothing in this post was aimed at discouraging people from meditating in a cave, if that’s what they want to do. BUT this belief in the deadly old man is a myth. I’m sticking to that.
As for your post based on Eric Berne’s pop psychology, I don’t see reality-based people as living in a fantasy world half as much as taiji people.
18 Orz // Jun 6, 2007 at 10:27 am
Very interesting topic.
So, if the “old man” in the video is doing BS training, what isn’t BS training in your opinion?
This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QlKVog58WE
This one ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6e01Gb-2h4
This one ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGfE6C18ePw
This one ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbCV3Vj9fhQ
or this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm2vR1p5F1Y
What would happen if the applications in these videos were done against someone who was really resisting?
This “deadly old man”, as you call him, is Master Huang Xingxian (黃性賢). He spent his whole life practicing CMA. He was an expert of Shaoling Kungfu and White Crane before the Chinese Civil War. When he came to Taiwan with KMD, he studied Crane Fist with the very famous master - Ling Guozhong in Taizhong, later he studied Yang Style Taiji with Cheng Manching(鄭曼青).
I think you can find lots of interesting stories about this deadly old man on internet.
I bet, if you show people who don’t know anything about CMA the demo videos of old Wang ShuJin (王樹金) doing Bagua and Ma Yueliang doing PH, many of them would said Wang ShuJin was a deadly “fat” old man and Ma Yueliang was a fake.
Do you actually think anybody who has practice Taiji for years and has watched Ma Yueliang’s PH video (linked above), would say he is a deadly old fart who has nothing to teach? I doubt it. These kinds of videos do have their value.
Obviously, this is a demo for promotion. Honestly, I don’t like this, either. But with no doubt, this is a very good marketing material. It has nothing to do with “real” Taiji Kungfu, just a PH show. Did you actually think that they were practicing like this in private behind the camera? Of course not! Otherwise, this deadly old man would not have had as many outstanding disciples.
Here is another video by Adam Mizner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO9HxXvbWME, a student under the lineage of Zhen Manching and Huang Xingxian. IMO, I think this is a quite common PH neijin (內勁) Training.
As you said, there are so many problems with this kind of training, I agree with that. But as I mentioned, this is a promotional video. You can also find many problems with most Taiji promotional videos and teaching videos. But in my opinion, in this video clip, Huang XingXiang was trying to demonstrate and help his students to realize Kaihe jin (開合勁) and Gudang jin (鼓盪勁).
There are different kind of Taiji Quan in the world nowadays. They do look different, and the trainings are very different, too.
Huang Xingxian, like many other famous taiji practitioners, ex. “Yang Chengfu (楊澄甫), Wu Tunian (吳圖南), Ma Yueliang, was a good CMA practitioner with plentiful “neijin” (內勁) when they were old. Where do you think they neijin was coming from? Don’t you think they were actually “training in ways that stress the body beyond” when they were young?
I am wondering how do you actually train Taiji now? Has anybody told you to use these videos of old masters as a model and imitate them? The essence of Taiji is not imitating your master, but “feeling” it yourself. The Taiji Bible (拳經) said: 「太極者，無極而生。動靜之機，陰 (yin) 陽 (yang) 之母也。動之則分，靜之則合。」What you can see is 陽 (yang), what you can not see is 陰 (yin), without one of them, it’s not Taiji. That would be shallow if people discussed Taiji only with those visible movements.
As you mentioned: “The myth of the deadly old man who has meditated in a cave in China for 50 years but can supposedly take out an entire NFL football team all by himself is BS!” What about Du Yuze (杜毓澤)? Pan Wingchow (潘詠周)? Feng Zhiqiang (馮自強)? Zheng Manching (鄭曼青)? Can they take out an entire NFL lootball team? Definitely not, not even when they were young! Do you know any Taiji master who could? The truth is - these Masters will be models of Taijiquan forever. And no matter how hard you train yourself, you probably won’t go beyond them.
Don’t judge a person by his appearance; and don’t judge one’s kungfu only by his promotional videos. If you really want to be an expert of CMA, then take more time to do background-research. That will help you. And if you really like to learn real Kungfu or fighting technics, maybe CMA is not a very good choice for you, it takes a lot of time to train and is not the most efficient martial art. You’d better be learning MMA.
PS. Since you think this kind of Taiji Training sucks, why don’t you share your training videos with us? That would be fair and objective. ^^ We are looking forward to watching them.
Orz
19 C.J.W. // Jun 6, 2007 at 4:36 pm
I agree with Dave in saying that the idea of an old fragile man being able to defeat younger and stronger opponents is only fit for martial art fictions.
As for videos showing such feats, if the demonstration is meant for showing certain aspects of the art, then I am ok with it. Just don’t label them as realistic fighting application.
Regarding Master Huang, my teacher knows someone who once went to Huang’s demo and pinned the Master’s hands to the thighs after other students had done the same and been thrown back like rag dolls. To his surprise, Huang just made up an excuse and told him it’s time for lunch break. Later Huang went to him in private and said “Oh come on, little brother, we are both in the martial art world. So how about you give me some face?”
20 wujimon » Blog Archive » Experience with White Crane Spreads Wing Application // Jun 6, 2007 at 9:12 pm
[…] of these applications are often considered ‘fake’ as noted by FormosaNeijia’s, The Myth of the Deadly Old Man, but playing around with this whole intention business really opened the doors of possibilities for […]
21 wujimon // Jun 6, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Hey chessman. Actually, I would expect these masters to fend against a double leg takedown. With my first wushu and taiji instructor, I tried it and got thrown to the side without a hitch (note, I did train in some wrestling back in the day, not the WWF stuff).
Another scenario was a friend of mine who side trains in BJJ/Judo and participates in the bullshido throwdowns, tried a double leg take down on his xingyi instructor (who’s more commonly known for his LHBF). He told me the master quickly sprawled, to his surprise as the master is quite old, and neutralize the shoot. While it’s not the ‘bounce back at my death-touch eye glare’, *some* masters are capable.
Does this master teach sprawling techniques? No. He teaches we have to be relaxed enough so that we can instantly react when the situation arises. This can only be achieved with a calm mind and soft, supple body.
Interesting post that will result in many ponderances
22 Myth of the Deadly Old Man? - The Dragon's List Kung Fu Community // Jun 7, 2007 at 6:32 am
[…] of the Deadly Old Man? Over on Formosa Neija there’s an excellent blog post on… The Myth of the Deadly Old Man! I found it very well conceived and written, and was wondering what my fellow DL’ers thought of the […]
23 Keith // Jun 7, 2007 at 9:27 am
All these comments show how immature martial artist have become. It has always been the way of the younger to boast of their strength and related in how powerful they are. North americans only care about one thing, power. That is the real myth, big muscles do not equal power, no matter how much we train and how hard we puch we will never be able to defeat the one true enemy, Ourselves. The quest for power will always lead to an unfavorable result. Too many try to learn martial arts with the single-minded vision of being this all-powerful being. That is simple not true.
Old masters should be respected not for what they can do, but for what they have accomplished. If you really doubt the old masters they find one and politely ask for a match, you’ll lose but you’ll find out a totally new side of martial arts that you couldn’t wrap your head around before. Martial arts is like an iceberg, only 20% is visible, and the bulk of it lays underneath the surface. Those who think martial arts is all about fighting are only seeing the 20% that is above the water. To find the true power of martial arts you must dig below the surface, you must give up your notions of was is and what isn’t, and you must learn to breathe properly.
24 chessman71 // Jun 7, 2007 at 9:47 am
Keith,
Welcome to the blog.
Your comment is way off.
No one said anything about “big muscles” or that power is the only thing you need. That’s simply not what I wrote.
You need to do a little more reading in my archives before you resort to your favorite stereotype when commenting on my post.
25 Karen from Atlanta // Jun 8, 2007 at 7:52 am
You do need to think about what you are trying to achieve from your martial arts study. There are things which seem mystical, but there are also palpable things you can see:
a. Take some martial arts classes in some other specialty like - capoiera, silat, Spanish fencing. See how your balance/ strength/ rooting/ speed/ positioning/ focus compare to what you see in other students. Have you learned ‘how to learn’? Can you recognize what is different or similar in what you are learning in this class with what you have trained in? Can you understand why it is different? Does your mind stop at the end of the drills, etc. or do you see possible next moves? You can evaluate if what you have studied has done you some good. Or, challenge yourself in yoga classes. Does it reveal any weaknesses? Take up rock climbing, see what you can and cannot do.
b. Have a professional evaluate you. I had knee surgery for something that bothered me from childhood, last February. After surgery, there was work with a physical therapist. She was amazed at the objective evaluations. “Well, no problem here!” was her typical phrase. And she would always say, “Here’s the advanced exercise.” So my training must have done some good.
Most of us (fortunately) aren’t going to fight to test what we know. By the time we are old, if we find out we studied the wrong thing, we won’t have the opportunity to study something else.
But, if what you study doesn’t consistently and positively change your body (and your mind) it is not helping you. You can’t predict exactly the results you will get (your individual mileage may vary) but you should be moving in the desired direction.
The videos and anecdotes never seemed to prove much to me; I am not training directly with the guys in the videos. I have to depend on what happens to me and other students, through practice and training of the flesh-and-bones teacher. There’s not much else to go on.
(Sorry to jump in as a stranger. My comments are the consensus of discusssions with martial arts friends on this subject.)
26 chessman71 // Jun 8, 2007 at 9:49 am
Karen,
Welcome to the blog. Good to see you here. I hope to get your comments on the CPL stuff in the future, if you have time.
You raise some good points. Cross-training in the manner that you mention can bring many things to light after the student has gained a sufficient level. As you say, “learning how to learn” is a big step.
“By the time we are old, if we find out we studied the wrong thing, we won’t have the opportunity to study something else.”
You might enjoy my latest post on Why do you train? IMA paradigms. I cover some of that. In general, I say if we’re interested in building fighting/self-defense skills, we should do that while we’re young. When you’re old, that’s not the time to do it. Hence, my post above on this subject.
27 Tim Chapman // Jun 9, 2007 at 5:36 am
Just a couple of quick comments.
Yes, I hate these sorts of demos, too.
Yes, there are plenty of charlatans in the martial arts.
Yes, the martial arts is full of mythology and misinformation.
That being said, don’t be too hasty to discount us guys over 50. There’s a lot to be said for the skill, knowledge and experience that comes with age. I’ll still take technique over strength any time.
As for MMA fighters, they are primarily fighters, not martial artists. True martial artists don’t try to crack open their opponents heads in the ring. A competition is not a fight, it is a learning experience and a true martial artist understands his responsibility to his opponent.
Karen wrote, “But, if what you study doesn’t consistently and positively change your body (and your mind) it is not helping you.”
That’s a great observation, Karen, and one that can be applied to all learning (Taiji, piano, math, literature, etc.).
Even though I took issue with the initial post here I think this is a great site and I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments.
28 chessman71 // Jun 10, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Tim,
Good thoughts. I certainly don’t discount everyone over 50. My point is that we should be doing training that is appropriate for our age rather than trying to train like we’re 80 years old.
Welcome to the blog, BTW.
29 Michelle de Vries // Jul 1, 2007 at 2:40 am
Excellent discussion here.
I’m rather inexperienced in the world of push hands and practical taijiquan, but I’ll write this:
After observing one of the many videos in this genre (sorry I don’t have the link) I tried a similar thing with my husband who is about 70kg. I asked him to just stand in a normal way while I press on his chest with one hand. (as in the video I was mimicking). I asked him to be totally and absolutely non resisting and compliant. With almost no force I could cause him to take a small step back as in the video. I also asked him after to try to keep his balance. At this point, I could cause him to loose his balance with only more force. In the video, the master was celebrated as being great and wonderful for not using force and causing the student to slightly loose balance. I say anybody can do this if the student has the attitude of total compliance. relax, relax, relax eh…
I definitely agree with your writing on this, Dave. Thanks
30 Jakob // Jul 23, 2007 at 6:14 pm
This is exactly what I expected to find out after reading the title . Thanks for informative article
31 Jeminai // Sep 20, 2007 at 6:22 am
I have been practicing under the lineage of Master Huang Xingxian and suggest that if you have any question about the authenticity of the master that you seek out his high level students and put your actions where your mouth is. Only through direct experience will you believe the unbelievable, words are empty, in the realm of words you can be an expert without ever practicing taiji with a little research and a creative mind, however this does nothing to change reality, the master lived in a reality that you couldn’t dream of, the benefits of which he enjoyed in his lifetime regardless of what anyone thinks. Push hands is a demonstrationi of taiji principles, in a martial situation the application of internal power would result in a few strikes at the most, breaking bones, damaging organs, incapacitating very quickly, this is not demonstratable without death. The masters were like land dolphins playing in their energy, don’t think for a second that these are demonstrations of martial application of taiji.
32 Dave Chesser // Sep 20, 2007 at 9:11 am
Complete nonsense. NOWHERE did I say that he wasn’t authentic. You’re too busy emoting to read what I wrote. Your loss.
What I said was that I don’t train for this.
33 Jeminai // Sep 20, 2007 at 11:01 am
Sorry Dave I should have specified that I was replying to the other posts after your original post, not yours specifically.
Yes I agree that to train to achieve what is demonstrated in the videos is misleading, personally I train to experience the depth of the tao. As I understand it the martial ability is realised inside the form and the practiced application of such until the principles become literally part of the body no longer requiring conscious thought to respond to a situation. Thinking is too slow in a real martial situation only that which has been embodied is useful.
“is there a single MMA fighter on the planet that couldn’t take this guy in the clip?”
It is my opinion that “this old man” would not have difficulty in dealing with the “youthful strong / fast” martial artist, what the youth has in speed and strength this old man has in awareness and mind, as the classics state “my opponent does not know me, but I know him. Wherever the hero goes, he is unmatched. This the goal to which we aspire”. You don’t start from a place of perfection, so I would say this old man is closer to this statement than the youthful.
I think martial application tests and refines your taiji ability greatly, and true taiji development should yield this ability, however just to train for martial ability would indicate that you think of yourself as being very small, there is alot more useful things such as knowing yourself deeply beyond form.
People like Master Ma yue Liang & Master Huang who were rooted in the spiritual aspects but who were also martially proficient as good taiji should be inspire myself to train harder.
34 Dave Chesser // Sep 20, 2007 at 11:08 am
Whoops. Sorry. I didn’t know that you were responding to others. But did someone say that he wasn’t authentic?
Maybe so. I haven’t read all the comments in a while.
Your training approach sounds quite reasonable and not far off from mine in many aspects. Good comment.
35 Dave Chesser // Sep 20, 2007 at 2:19 pm
BTW, I took the clip off of the post. I hope it didn’t cause any problems.
I wasn’t trying to say anything about Huang specifically, I was just trying to make a point in general and put that clip up.
I also loved these apps done by a student of Huang’s:
http://formosaneijia.com/2007/excellent-zmq-apps/
That’s the real training IMO. Hopefully that balances everything out.
Take care.
36 Jeminai // Sep 23, 2007 at 5:59 am
I noticed the idea of compliant students has come up alot in this posting, that the students are going along with the masters intentions and that this is the factor which results in such a successful push. To some degree this is true, but the real truth is that if these guys resisted they would only fall harder and go further, the more resistance they offer the easier it is for a skilled taiji practitioner to imbalance their base/root, people who are practicing with a master of this level realise that they are in a position to learn, so they are looking at yielding, if they were successul at their yielding they would not be able to be pushed as the energy would be neutralised. Just to try to resist means they would stunt their learning, to improve yielding is the way, or as Cheng man Ching said “invest in loss”. I have heard stories of people disrespecting the master and trying to do surprise kicks at him with a strong intention to overpower him, as
I understand it this occasion resulted in the student receiving a broken leg for his troubles. So yes these students are compliant, but this is because they are trying to learn and advance themselves by learning to yield properly, rest assure the will have tried to resist the master at some stage which would be unsuccessful. I have learn’t not to resist now also, as all attempts only make it worse.
As for standardised applications presented in the form, they are their and it is fine to train them, but at the higher levels where the principles have been deeply integrated into the body and mind they go formless, the moves then may no longer resemble the form but the principles inside their every movement are still taiji and function effectively.
37 Tony // Apr 23, 2008 at 6:16 am
1 years ago i came upon this site and a video showing the old man, now i dont see any video on this page at all, what happen to the video?
38 Dave Chesser // Apr 23, 2008 at 10:29 am
I took it down. My comment was more in general but some people thought I was directly targeting the teacher in the video. I wasn’t. We all get old.
BTW I probably wouldn’t write a post like this today.
My, how things change in a year!
39 meow // Apr 23, 2008 at 11:27 am
what did u learn in a year?
40 wayne hansen // Apr 23, 2008 at 12:45 pm
i have the greatest admiration for master huang.
he was introduced to professor cheng by our own grand master yap sui ting,and it was huang who implored yap to come to malaysia to teach.
i start each training session with his 5 sung ging exercises,he should be praised just for the brilliance of those exercises alone.
however on too many occasions students do the lame duck for their teacher.
two things seem to be missing in a lot of pushing demos attack and defence.
students never seem to probe the teacher in an articulate manner nor do they try to neutralise the incoming attack.
i do not mean they can neutralise in time,but there seems to be no attempt made at neutralising.
this cheapens both the master and the art.
master huang proved himself in combat on many occasions and even bested the great hung i hsiang in competition.
did it pass on to the next generation,in some cases yes.his son in law certainally has it,but unfortunatlly many of his students only learnt the demo tricks and circus them around the world.
41 My, how things change // Apr 23, 2008 at 2:37 pm
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