I obviously look at lots of video, but I really rarely see someone that I think really gets it. Here’s someone that does. This is Roberto Sharpe teaching some taiji and bagua push hands moves.
Notice that right away, he’s familiar with how xingyi and taiji have similar concepts, but slightly different expressions of the moves. He shows the student how both the arts would work.
At around 2:28 h’s showing her how to press in with the palm and crowd the opponent’s space. This inward pressure on the elbow is an important point in push hands. I need to work more on it. Any time you can get this, you should go for it. Many moves have this application inside them. To find them, pay attention to position of the “yin” hand.
Sharpe is obviously a great teacher. I really like his style. Notice how he takes the push at 6:20.
Then he says, “the finishing shape is the finishing shape, but the process of getting there is rich in information.” Yes!
This is a key point that few people get. Arts like taiji are NOT punch/kick, what-you-see-is-what-you-get martial arts. The secret to applying the art is in the transitions. This is why you can’t separate taiji from the taiji form. You NEED those connections between the moves because in reality, those connections ARE the moves; not the end postures that everyone looks at. The analogy of the baseball pitch is perfect for this. The pitch is so much more than where the pitcher’s hand ends up at the end of the throw.
I’m looking at all his vids. Good stuff.
15 responses so far ↓
1 Joe // Dec 13, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Great find! It’s really interesting to see different teachers in action.
2 brian // Dec 14, 2007 at 4:54 am
What do you mean by transitions? Could you please explain more?
brian
3 Patrick Parker // Dec 14, 2007 at 7:23 am
“the finishing shape is the finishing shape, but the process of getting there is rich in information… The secret to applying the art is in the transitions. ”
Yes, yes, yes. This is exactly right - and this applies to aikido and judo too. The aiki is not in the techniques but in the motion between the techniques.
4 Brennan Cleveland // Dec 14, 2007 at 10:23 am
This applies to all combat sports and martial arts that I can think of. Expert skill lies in mastery of footwork, timing, distance, and angles. Watch Floyd Mayweather or Pernell Whitaker clips on YouTube for examples from boxing.
I think the most significant difference between an art like Tai Chi, and say, Northern Shaolin, is that Tai Chi starts from day one with the expert subject matter. This is why it takes such a long time for a Tai Chi student to develop usable fighting skill.
5 Dave Chesser // Dec 14, 2007 at 11:12 am
When I talk about the transitions, I’m saying that many of the applications of the moves in taiji are NOT found in the end posture of those moves, but in the transitions between those end postures. When Roberto says those spaces are rich in information, that’s what he’s saying, too.
I’m planning a post of this subject, so stay tuned.
6 Miro // Dec 14, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Wow, Dave, I am surprised - this casual movement should be an example of someone who supposedly got it? Try to look at his legs, try to look at his structure, forces, qi, maybe you can notice and understand it is all empty… In a fight, this man certainly can not seriously (internally) hurt you, do not worry.
Why do you consider him good? Perhaps because many others are even worse than him? You know, it is not good to look at too many videos of poor teachers - because you can lose image of those old masters, you can lose image of what is really good.
Keep your standards, please. Thanks.
Miro
7 Dave Chesser // Dec 14, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Miro,
I will admit that I rarely see stuff that impresses me as far as push hands goes. And it’s not like I haven’t looked.
8 wujimon // Dec 15, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I agree that this guy is definitely onto something. My own instructors have also emphasized working more on the transitions movements as they hold ‘the key’. This is interesting to compare and contrast the styles/teachings that focus on correcting final movement postures…
9 Tim // Dec 16, 2007 at 6:51 am
Dave,
I don’t see it. This guy has no connection at all that I can see.
10 Tim // Dec 16, 2007 at 8:14 am
To be more specific– at the beginning when he stands up, he has to bend forward first. This shows me that he lacks the hip flexiblity and posture needed to pass the power to his lower body. Also, it means he’s unstable in his posture.
11 Dave Chesser // Dec 16, 2007 at 10:08 am
Well, I don’t think his flexibility at the beginning of the clip is an issue. He’s just squatting down to watch the student.
I would listen more to what he says and look at how he works out the moves. That was what impressed me more.
Other than that, we might keep in mind that we aren’t all working with the exact same body mechanics. For example, Akuzawa’s exercises apparently use some postures where the elbows are hyperexteneded. We would never, ever do that because it violates our basic requirement to drop the elbow.
So when different people look at clips, they see different things.
12 Rob // Dec 16, 2007 at 11:36 am
Tim,
I disagree with the hip flexibility, issue. Remember that video with the coach??
Its not about hip flexibility persay.
As far as the squat goes, he pushes the ground going up. Most guys that have something would never “push” the ground when they get up…
But maybe he was just being lazy
That being said, I’d have to agree with most here in that I see a lot of coordinated movement, but very little connected movement.
13 Tim // Dec 17, 2007 at 3:42 am
Dave,
I guess, since I’m not seeing much connection in the movement, I lose interest. If I want to work in the non-connected (or nonbodywork focused) paradigm, I’d rather look at how a judo or greco player approaches the clinch. Not this taiji guy.
Rob,
Hm. I do remember the video. Takeo and I tried to work on the stuff from the video. We found that he began to feel like his knee was ”pulling apart” when I went through some of the postural corrections with him hands on. Then again, maybe I just suck at following along with the video =)
14 Jack Rusher // Dec 22, 2007 at 11:24 pm
I’ve met Roberto. He picked up much of his Yang style from William CC Chen, who also uses a very high and somewhat “casual” posture. It would be a mistake to assume that he lacks root or frame based on what you see in these videos.
15 Dave Chesser // Dec 23, 2007 at 12:16 am
Jack,
Thanks for the comment. Hao style and Sun style also have high stances, almost to the point that they stand up straight. The bend in the knee and the kua is very slight. Yet they have no problem generating power.
I agree with your comment.
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