http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4LVjwPGhQg
This is a two-man form from Han Qing-tan’s qinna system. I had no idea it was on this film, but here it is. I wonder what else is on that film? Anyway, Han’s flavor comes through quite well. It’s good to see a qinna flow like this because this kind of practice makes for an excellent review. You get almost all your qinna techniques practiced in just a few minutes time.
10 responses so far ↓
1 Dojo Rat // Jul 30, 2007 at 12:18 am
Although I am not familiar with the practitioner, I can appreciate where they’re going with this. I am a nut for cool lock flow drills, but this is a little too theatrical. What I do see however, is much like our 2-man San-shou form, there appears to be an “A” side and a “B” side. This gives me an idea about expanding our short lock-flow loops into a longer form such as this.
D.R.
2 chessman71 // Jul 30, 2007 at 1:16 am
DR,
Yeah, this is an actual two-man form. The pattern is set. I’ve seen it many times. They use it for demos a lot so that’s why it has the more theatrical feel to it.
3 Scott // Jul 30, 2007 at 1:51 am
Nice to see everyone recognizing the performing aspect of gongfu. This looks like a lot of fun! Here are 5 things that I think this sort of training produces.
1. Whole body power.
2. Comfort with full power, because you know it’s coming.
3. Continuous contection to the other persons center.
4. Facility with sweeps and low kicks that allows you to win foot tangles.
5. Liuhe, power in 6 directions
4 Jose de Freitas // Jul 30, 2007 at 6:08 am
Cool! That’s actually very close to the first of the two man sets I learned from my teacher here. It’s certainly the same set, with about 10-20% changes and much wider delivery and “drama”. We do it more compact, and we emphasize whipping power in the strikes and bigger drops on the locks (ie. dropping your center more). My teacher calls it “First Routine of Long Fist Qinna” (I know, not very romantic or inspiring name), and states it comes from the Kuoshu Institute and that his own teacher (Zhang Wenjun, an Eagle Claw expert turned Internal Artist, who lived in Singapore from the mid-30’s to 1961) was one of the members of the comittee that put this together. Do you know more of this set, Dave? Apparently there are at least two more.
I like them a lot, but…. As I said to Dojo Rat on a previous post on his site, I think lock-flow drills with fewer techniques make for better training of spontaneous responses. The forms are great, especially when you get to the point that you know them well enough that you can play them “trying” to get the other guy. He knows what’s coming, but it’s still a challenge to respond well, with correct angles and positioning and power and speed. But I need to play a lot of the drills Dojo Rat showed!
5 chessman71 // Jul 30, 2007 at 10:26 am
Jose, I don’t actually know this set. I wish I did. But I have a lead on where I can learn it. Like you, I’ve heard that there are one or two more. But I’ve only seen bits and pieces of those.
I’m glad you guys like this stuff. If I get more info, I’ll be sure to post it.
6 enokidake // Jul 30, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Someone showed this to me a while back and told me who it was…Shen Maohui and…somebody (Tang Ke Jie?). I’m not so good with names. The thicker guy definately looks like Shen Maohui though. The same dui da can be seen in the famous Taiwan 1964 footage on youtube.
7 Jose de Freitas // Jul 30, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Sorry! I meant to say Jing Wu, not Kuoshu.
I just talked to my teacher this morning. In one of those weird coincidences, he gave a seminar on this form last saturday, and a few of the students showed up today to review the material (my teacher is every morning at a park from 8h to 9h30). He told me that there are actually six forms, but generally only the first three are considered important, the rest being mostly concerned with variations in angle, footwork, etc…
The first form is also called He Tsang (?), or First or Primary Conflict/War or something. On reviewing the form you show again, I can see that maybe the differences are bigger than I saw first, and maybe not only in the “performing” style. I’ll show it to my teacher, but maybe this is a somewhat different set, or maybe one of them is derivative of the other.
In any case, this is cool stuff to know and play at!
8 Curtis Adkins // Sep 8, 2007 at 2:24 am
The two practitioners are Shen Mao Hui 沈茂惠 and Jiang Chang Gen 姜長根, senior students of Han Qing Tang back in the ’60s. I filmed them in New Park 新公園 in 1964. Shen Mao Hui is the thinner of the two and hams it up a little for the camera. He did some work as a movie extra, doing MA parts in historical films, and once described to me a near accident in jumping off a rooftop with a spear.
9 chessman71 // Sep 8, 2007 at 9:53 am
Curtis,
Thanks for the clarification. I knew one of them was Shen but I wasn’t sure about the other student.
10 Curtis Adkins // Oct 19, 2007 at 1:28 am
As for what else is on the film, there are over 15 segments but only a few are of HQT and his senior students. These segments are:
HQT doing Si Lu Beng Da, Tan Tui, and some posture demos.
Shen Mao Hui and Jiang Chang Gen: (1) Qin Na from both front and back; (2) broadsword vs spear.
Shen Mao Hui doing a spear form.
The rest is students of various skill levels doing some LF forms, mostly Si Lu Beng Da and Tan Tui, which were my main interests at that time. There is a brief segment of HQT and Jiang Chang Gen doing a two person sword form. That was one of the days I ran out of film.
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