Oh dear. We have a situation.
This is Tim Cartmell’s new qinna book - a translation of the old 1936 manual of restraining techniques for the Zhejiang police department. What makes the Chinese edition unique is that it’s the first of its kind to offer jiu-jitsu style ground restraints. And I say “restraints” specifically because it really isn’t ground grappling per se. The book may or may not be touted as such, but the techniques are basically meant for police and show what to do when an officer gets in ground situations. The techniques, therefore, are more likely to appeal to people that don’t have an extensive ground grappling background or for people who want the book for its historical relevance. Its curriculum of qinna is short and sweet, and would make a great addition to anyone’s library. I haven’t actually seen Tim’s version yet, but if it follows the Chinese edition exactly, then don’t expect this book to be as clear on details or theory as other, more modern books on qinna.
Now here we have something interesting — the exact same book being offered by another translator only a few days before Cartmell’s edition came out. But look at the cover graphics — I like them much better. And unlike Tim’s book, you can look inside this one on Amazon.
As a book editor myself, I don’t like superimposing word graphics over other words graphics, as this edition does on the cover. It makes the cover look cluttered. I notice that “na” is also written incorrectly in Chinese. But otherwise, this cover is excellent and is likely to attract much more people than Tim’s book.
Looking inside, I see that he has done a fairly good translation. He stuck fairly closely to the original text, from the pages that I have scanned. The book has a really nice layout. The fonts aren’t too big or too small.
One thing I need to mention about this edition of the book is that it is self-published through lulu.com. This introduces a whole new ballgame to MA publishing. Tim’s book is with a traditional publisher and undoubtedly went through the laborious publishing process. That process can take smaller authors, chew them up and spit them out. In the past few years, the publishing business has become practically impossible to survive in, leading many to publish through outfits like Lulu.
Self-publishing means that you have to do everything yourself. Trust me — writing/translating, editing, designing, laying out and then selling a book is really difficult when you do all of it by yourself. This often led to less than desirable results in the past. This lack of quality used to be one reason not to buy self-published books. But here we have a self-published book that actually looks BETTER than the version from the traditional publisher.
So here we have a matchup between traditional publishers and the new self-publishers. Hopefully, the consumer will win in the end.
9 responses so far ↓
1 Casey // Jul 22, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Well, it seems the second one costs $16 dollars more than the first. If the translation and content are approximately the same, why pay twice as much?
2 Casey // Jul 22, 2007 at 8:05 pm
However, on second thought, the title and cover of the second one are cooler and not every potential buyer will know that there are two competing versions of what is basically the same book. Also, just adding the word “Shaolin” will probably increase the number of searches it comes up in. On the other hand, Tim Cartmell is a big name, but maybe not outside the IMA community.
It will be interesting to see which sells better. If the second sells better despite costing twice as much it will be a real victory for the importance of packaging (nice cover, catchy title=more sales).
3 James Holan // Jul 24, 2007 at 1:04 am
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4 JessO // Jul 24, 2007 at 3:31 am
Hi Dave and others,
Nice post. I worked with Tim a bit on the new book. I think the book cover is in the eye of the beholder, and to tell the truth I’m not thrilled with either. I would prefer that the graphic on Tim’s book be larger. The lulu book is just too Inside Kung Fu looking, with the scary looking guys, etc.
As to the content, I imagine they are fairly close, as they are both translating the same book.
However, to have a BJJ blackbelt and thoroughly trained IMA expert doing the translation is a far different thing that the guy who did the lulu book. Tim’s credentials allow you to have some confidence that it is being translated thoroughly and with a strong persepective in both CMA and grappling. So the informed consumer will likely tend toward Tim’s book.
As to the publishing industry, it’s not quite a level playing field. When a book is published by a strong US publisher, it not only undergoes editing, design and marketing by a professional staff, it will be available to a much much larger market.
Lulu and all the other online publishers are the same as vanity publishers of the past. Essentially they are book printers who make your book available to anyone who calls up and asks for it. Therefore, all your friends and family can get their own copy, and you can be a published author for only a thousand or two bucks.
However, when North Atlantic publishes a book, it is sold directly to Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc, as well as distributors to all the independent bookstores. It is now in the database of all these stores, and will be shelved in many of them, at least at first.
Lulu won’t do any of this. It will be buried on the Amazon list somewhere, and will steadily drop on that list over time. Publishers PAY to place their books on Amazon, that’s why vanity books are hard to find there. It won’t be on any bookshelves, and it won’t be in the B&N database in the store, or if it is, it will be hard to find.
Essentially, publishers are the gatekeepers to the market. That’s really what they’ve been all along, and with the rise of desktop publishing, it hasn’t changed. If you want distribution you have to go through them, and that’s the way they will keep it. If not, you gotta sell your books the old fashioned way, one at a time…
That said, I think the more translations the better. It helps people get to know the text better when seen through different lenses.
Take care,
Jess O’Brien
5 chessman71 // Jul 24, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Jess,
Regarding Tim doing the translating, as I’ve said before, if he sticks with a straight translation rather than putting in his insights, then it won’t make much of a difference. The shaolin guy would likely do as good a translation in that case.
Regarding the professionalism of the publishing industry, that might have been the case 25 years ago. But as a professional editor myself, I’m seeing major mistakes in lots of published works. Publishers are getting sloppy and cutting corners way too much.
Many of your other comments will not apply if the self-publishing author aggressively markets his own books. Considering that this is a niche market anyway, I think that self-publishing is going to really make a dent as long as the big publishers are this lazy.
The only thing the self-publishing crowd lacks is smart pricing. If they’d come down in price, they could be truly competitive IMO.
6 JessO // Jul 25, 2007 at 12:24 am
Hi Dave,
“Many of your other comments will not apply if the self-publishing author aggressively markets his own books. Considering that this is a niche market anyway, I think that self-publishing is going to really make a dent as long as the big publishers are this lazy.”
Regardless of quality, regardless of the self-published authors efforts, regardless of price point they set, they can never break through the barriers that the established publishing industry have put up. They won’t be in stores, they won’t appear on the online searches (unless the are searched specifically by exact name) and they won’t have any chance to reach consumers at the same level. A self-published author who hustles his ass off might be able to get his book some sales, and might even make decent money, if he works really, really hard. But their ability to reach the general public will never be able to match that of the establishment publishers. They have a lock on the way books enter the market that a self-publisher cannot get through.
Not to say it’s not worth it, it probably is for many books that don’t fit for mainstream publishers. There are lots of good reasons to self-publish. But the impossibility of getting into bookstores is a major impediment.
My opinion FWIW.
-Jess O
7 chessman71 // Jul 25, 2007 at 9:59 am
Jess,
It’s your last comment that I think is most important. In many ways, this is a niche market — something the big boys don’t do very well. Most published works, like novels and such, definitely fall under your comments above. But I think that MA books could do well if self-published.
8 Ellis Amdur // Jul 26, 2007 at 1:23 am
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned - profit. I self-published two books (sold off of my website, as well sold wholesale to a couple of other distributors). I didn’t even get an ISBN number until this year. Both my books were considered by publishers to be unlikely to sell many copies, so they were rejected over and over. Publishers generally offer as low as 7% - and more usually 10-12% of the cover price to the writer. So let’s take the high figure. On a $20 book, the writer gets $2.40. Me? I paid someone appr. $2500 to do all the lay-out, etc. I paid a printer $2 a copy to do the print run. I have run no adds. My whole sale price per book is $13 and cover price is $20. I’ve sold about 2000 of one book, and 1500 of the other (which is far more than what the publishers predicted - which is why they either rejected the books or low-balled their bid - and I’ve done it all word of mouth). If I average in all the costs, I’ve made, let’s say about $14 per copy. Even if that’s a little high, I’ve made - profit - over well $40,000 clear profit. And it’s all been word of mouth.
And as for Lulu, a friend of mine just published her graphic novel thru them - They do all the work and she gets 70% cover price.
And even though self-published in the US, publishing companies from other countries have approached me. I’ve got a French and Spanish translation out of one book, Old School, and a Greek and Hungarian translation of the other, Dueling with Osensei.
I’m not claiming my experience as a paradigm, but for me, at least, self-publishing has been all upside.
Ellis Amdur
9 JessO // Jul 26, 2007 at 7:48 am
Cool Ellis! It’s hard for a publisher to make their money back on 2000 copies, so it’s not likely that they would be able to do much with your books. So you are the perfect example of how a self-published author can be very successful. The company I work for wouldn’t publish anything that they couldn’t sell 6000 or more of.
As Dave mentioned, you are in a great niche market that has some voracious readers. So it’s a perfect situation to publish in.
To be fair, you aren’t the average author, you are highly respected and well known in your field, after decades of thankless hard work. This gives you a leg up on the unknown self-published guy who will have a much harder time getting their stuff known. And a lot of people tire eventually of the printing, packing and shipping of each and every book.
That said, I couldn’t agree more that you are in a great position for self publishing, and more power to ya!
-Jess O
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