I’m looking at getting back into yoga again after a really long break. I haven’t done it seriously since university. In the process, I’ve come across some very interesting articles about the weaknesses of yoga. Here’s the first article (original here). I’d love to hear that readers think of this stuff.
THE TRUTH ABOUT YOGA AND PILATES
Yo! Yoga People. If I come across anyone who is training to stand in the same place for an hour, I’ll send them your way.
I don’t think I have a problem with the new “magic bullets” in fitness, yoga and Pilates, as much as I do with the thought process of one size-fits-all cures. They are two obviously different disciplines but, have one thing in common. Both seem to be taught and patronized by zealots who believe that their discipline of choice is “the key” to fitness. I can tell you that at least once a month I get approached by an acquaintance who knows what I do for a living who says, “We have to talk about yoga; you have no idea what it will do for your athletes.”
Point 1
For all you zealots out there trying to help me train my athletes, I actually have done OK without you. Just for the record, there are many folks like me who have been training athletes for decades who have drawn much of their warm-up and flexibility work from yoga but don’t feel the need to dedicate two of their eight hours a week to this relatively small area. I need to work on strength, power, speed, and conditioning — all in eight hours a week. I need to do that with a proper warm-up and attention to flexibility.
Can’t you just see the yoga guy or girl jumping up and down saying, “I know, I know, yoga does all that.”
The truth is yoga does not do all that.
Yoga develops strength to a point and then simply works primarily on muscle endurance.
Point 2
To develop strength, we need progressive resistance exercise. The only way to get that in yoga would be to try to gain weight. If bodyweight is a constant than progressive resistance is not possible without adding external load. Sorry. That is a fact.
Point 3
Yoga by its nature will not develop power. For power, we need speed of movement. Yoga does not have speed of movement.
I know some styles of yoga bill themselves as “Power Yoga” but that is a bit of an oxymoron. For power we actually need to move as fast as possible against a given resistance. In yoga the only available resistance is body weight and no one is moving as fast as possible.
Point 4
Conditioning. I love this one.
The yoga folks say, “But yoga is great for conditioning.”
How can something be great for conditioning if you don’t move? The essence of sport is movement. In yoga you stay in your own little space.
Point 5
Please stop telling me about the breathing. I can’t tell you how many times people have told me that my athletes really don’t know how to breathe and that yoga will totally change them. Thank God I have never had an athlete stop breathing on me.
Let me explain something to you yoga folks out there.
I’m happy that you found something that you like. In my mind, if it works for you, it works for you. Stop trying to sell it to me.
I think many people get tremendous benefit when they commit to a system. That system could be yoga or Pilates or any other trend that materializes. I think what many people are really saying is, “Hey, I found something that works for me, let me tell you about it.”
The truth is I’ve thought about it. And I firmly believe it is not the answer you think it is. That should tell you something, but it probably won’t: you can’t see the forest because of the trees. You’re mad that I don’t like yoga. Get over it. Go to another class. If I come across anyone who is training to stand in the same place for an hour, I’ll send them your way.
17 responses so far ↓
1 hz // Jun 30, 2007 at 9:12 pm
It’s like any training modality, imperfect.
Yoga = Strengths include flexibility, patience, breathing control in difficult positions.
Yoga is rotten for conditioning, power generation, muscle hypertrophy, etc.
It’s like the crazy kettlebell culture. I love KBs, but common, they aren’t the panacea for all that ailes you.
When are people going to learn that the best exercise plans are the ones that include a wide variety of different modalities..
Yoga, Kettlebells, Martial Arts, Olympic Lifts, Rowing, etc..
Build your own JKD of training.
-hz
2 chessman71 // Jun 30, 2007 at 9:19 pm
“When are people going to learn that the best exercise plans are the ones that include a wide variety of different modalities.”
Good question.
3 mo // Jun 30, 2007 at 9:35 pm
i’ve been doing yoga for about 8 years, since i was 16, and teaching for 4 of those years after i got my license, and what this guy is saying is absolutely true.
even ashtanga yoga, which is probably the most dynamic system of yoga there is, will not train power and speed. yoga’s benefits are emotional, mental, and physical health. it will not bring you to the next level of human physical abilities, like running a 1 minute mile. it will bring your body to the optimal state of health and maintain that state, it will not develop the latent physical potential.
people have to understand that a healthy body doesn’t mean a physically developed body. two completely different things. developed strength, speed, and endurance do not translate to health, and vice versa.
4 Casey // Jun 30, 2007 at 10:50 pm
When discussing the benefits of things like Yoga, Qigong or Taiji, I think it’s important to distinguish between which benefits are because of their unique nature and which benefits could be reaped from any regimen of stretching, balancing, breathing or moving gently.
I think Yoga is basically Indian Qigong, but from what I’ve heard, the emphasis is even more on the spiritual side, as opposed to Qigong, which has strong traditions of use for spirituality, health, martial arts and any combination of the above. I think what most people will get out of Yoga will only be some improved flexibility and balance–which they could get out of a vigorous regimen of stretching and stance training.
Those who pursue it deeply may achieve “energetic” results ala qigong, but that not only takes a lot of work, but is mostly applicable in terms of giving you more relaxed, explosive power–not in terms of giving you great strength or endurance. If you’re looking to get in better shape then I think Yoga wouldn’t really be my first choice. Zhou Laoshi once said to me that he almost always loses in arm wrestling if his opponent begins with a firm grip on his hand, but almost always wins if he’s allowed to begin with his hands barely touching the opponent’s. This is because his muscles aren’t super big or strong, but they have really explosive power (which i think is basically being able to go from super relaxed to super tense in a very short time), so if he can get the opponent in one quick squeeze and push-down motion, he’ll win. If he’s forced to pit pure muscular strength or endurance against most opponents, he loses.
In my opinion, the “energetic” benefits are those benefits to be found in Qigong/Yoga over-and-above what can be achieved by simply stretching and standing on one leg a lot. These seem to be primarily beneficial to health (especially for problems that can benefit from improved circulation) and that kind of explosive power mentioned above. I don’t think they’re really that great for strength and endurance. (I do, however, find that “energy flow” and muscular flexibility do seem to be linked somewhat and can help or hinder one another).
5 mo // Jun 30, 2007 at 11:26 pm
umm.. you get more than just a little flexibility from yoga. some of the more advanced asanas/postures require you to be quite flexible.
however, the main benefits, i’ve found, are to the body’s internal systems, like the digestive system, cardiac system, nervous system (sympathetic and parasympathetic), internal organs, the ductless glands (adrenal, pituitary, etc.), etc. each and every pose is supposed to massage and tone at least one of these organs. in the yoga sutras of patanjali, it is written that if you do the peacock pose for 3 minutes, you can ingest poison without any harm. while i wouldn’t try this, the peacock posture is said to be the supreme pose for invigorating and stimulating the digestive system.
as my practice has gotten deeper, i’ve come to notice that yoga postures are meant to deal more with the internal organs, rather than the external muscles and joints. it just so happens that to perform these postures, you need very good flexibility. for example, the forward bend is supposed to tone the abdominal wall and stimulate the gastric fire (read metabolism), while massaging the large and small intestine, and stomach. this is only possible if you can bend forward enough that your stomach is compressed by your thighs. and you can only compress your stomach on you thighs if your hamstrings and lower back are flexible enough to allow you bend forward that much. so to be able to accomplish the purpose of this pose, you need to have a very flexible lower back and hamstrings.
6 Casey // Jun 30, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Well, qigong can also achieve an “organ-massage” effect not only through the nature of the breathing and movements, but also with “sound” qigong designed to stimulate the various organ systems. You can really feel the sounds vibrating in various parts of your chest and abdomen as they change.
I wasn’t trying to criticize Yoga–only point out that it’s going to give you the same sorts of benefits you’d get from qigong–improved relaxation, flexibility, circulation, digestion and so on. I do believe it can be very good for achieving such worthy goals, only that it’s not going to give you the same kind of fitness as say, running, swimming or lifting weights. If your goal in starting Yoga is improved mind-body health, etc. then you’re probably on the right track. If it’s to get over your problem with running short of breath when sparring, not so much.
7 mo // Jul 1, 2007 at 12:31 am
oh i agree with you casey. i was just wanted to point out that the main physical emphasis of yoga is on the internal organs, not the external flexibility of muscles and tendons/ligaments.
like i said before, the guy who wrote the article is completely right in his points on yoga and how it should be viewed in relation to athletic training.
8 Chad // Jul 1, 2007 at 3:43 am
The problem with all of this “(fill in the blank)is great for conditinoing” is that no one bothers to define what they mean by conditioning. There are all types of copnditioning. If you are looking for sport specific condintioning, go to some one who specializes in that.
If you are looking for over all nueromuscular condintioning, almost anything that requires you to think while moving will do. Taiji yoga and Pilates are quite good at this type because of the slowness of movment and focus on concentration of alignment. This will yeild alot of functional benefits, true, but these benefits will depend on the mind and intent of the practitioner. But this is not to say one is better than the other or that they are better then anything else.
If you are looking for building lean bodymass, loosing fat, and other everyday stuff, ALmost any activity will do if it raises your EPOC during the day and you train right.
“Western” Weight training has gotten a really bad rap of late. Everyone regarless of the sport can benefit from general strength training.
The other thing is that no matter what you do, your body will become conditioned to that activity. It’s called General adaptation Syndrome, and it is the reasopn so many people work out every day doing the same thing and stop seeing benefits. Yoga Taiji, or anything else. This is the benfit of cross training.
Most important is the excercise needs to be something you enjoy or gain some reward from. If not, you are less likely to keep it up and then, that all she wrote.
9 james // Jul 1, 2007 at 8:10 am
what do I think of the article? Trolling. It´s not worth any more words
10 chessman71 // Jul 1, 2007 at 8:55 am
Mo,
Your comments are great. Really good points.
James,
You may like the next article a little better. It’s less inflammatory, but a little more penetrating.
11 Aboroth // Jul 1, 2007 at 10:31 am
Great point to bring up Chessman!
Mo said:
“people have to understand that a healthy body doesn’t mean a physically developed body. two completely different things. developed strength, speed, and endurance do not translate to health, and vice versa.”
Mo, I’m sorry but that is just not true, the field of Exercise Physiology is the study of how exercise (strength, endurance and flexibility) affects physiological and psychological health and the consistent finding is a strong positive correlation between exercise (strength, endurance and flexibility) and health. So, all things being equal, a person with greater strength, endurance and flexibility will be healthier than one with less strength, endurance and flexibility.
12 mo // Jul 1, 2007 at 1:21 pm
aboroth,
i should have said, “doesn’t NECESSARILY mean a physically developed body.”
external health (strength, endurance, flexibility), does not equal internal health (sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system, endocrine system, etc.). they are not mutually exclusive by any means, but neither does it mean that one will necessarily lead to the other. of course, physical training will bring benefits to your internal organs, but only up to a point. just as yoga postures, which are designed for the internal organs, only develop your strength, endurance, and flexibility up to a point.
bottom line is, if you want to develop speed, you have to do an exercise that specializes in that. same thing with strength and endurance. if you want to work on your internal systems, then you have to do exercises that are designed for that kind of work. there is no “one size fits all” cure.
to give an example (might be a bad one, but you’ll get my meaning):
mike tyson’s training focused on speed, power, and endurance. as a result of his training, he also strengthened certain internal systems like the cardiac and immune system. these are probably the two internal systems that can most benefit from training designed for speed, power, and endurance. his type of training, however, probably didn’t do any SIGNIFICANT impact on his digestive system, nervous system (different from the neuro-muscular system, which IS significantly affected by physical training), and autonomic nervous system (controls blood pressure, waste elimination, etc.)
yogic postures and breathing practices affect these internal systems directly, they were specifically designed for this task. as a consequence of these postures, a person developed a certain amount of strength, flexibility, and power. however, it’s no where near what one could develop if he trained the way mike tyson did. do you get my meaning? exercises and drills specialize on developing certain attributes, or fulfilling certain agendas. there IS crossover from physical training to internal training, and vice versa, but only up to a very limited point.
13 Formosa Neijia - Exploring Taiwan’s Martial Arts » Problems with yoga pt. 2 // Jul 1, 2007 at 7:50 pm
[...] Problems with yoga? pt. 1 [...]
14 Aboroth // Jul 2, 2007 at 8:00 am
Mo,
Are you kidding me..?
Are you saying that strength and endurance training don’t affect diabetes and insulin secretion/sensitivity? And that aerobic training doesn’t affect blood pressure, lung capacity, stroke volume?
15 mo // Jul 2, 2007 at 10:22 pm
i said there IS crossover, but up to a limited point. read my post again. and i did mention that the cardiac system is one of the internal systems that DOES gain a lot of benefit from strength and endurance training.
in a nut shell, if you want to take certain internal systems (like the autonomic nervous system and digestive system) to the next level of health, you have to do something that SPECIFICALLY targets them, and yoga does that. it’s not the only system that does, like casey mentioned, qigong is also effective. if you’re ok with average of slightly above average healthy internal systems, then there’s no need for yoga, regular exercise will take care of it.
and if you want to take your strength and endurance to the next level of power, not just average or above average, you have to do something that specifically targets those attributes, namely, strength and endurance exercises, not something like yoga that will build it only up to a certain point.
16 chessman71 // Jul 2, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Mo, I have a question. I’m noticing hyperextension of the joints in a book I bought called Iyengar yoga for Beginners by BKS Iyengar. The male and female models seem to be hyperextending both their legs and arms in the postures.
Do you think that yoga requires flexibility to the point of hyperextension in order to gain the organ benefits that you’re talking about here?
17 mo // Jul 2, 2007 at 11:19 pm
it really depends on how much flexibility is needed to complete the pose. however, in the two systems i’ve studied, sivanada and ashtanga yoga, there is no such thing as a relaxed joint, there is always tension. ashtanga yoga in particular uses what we IMAists have come to call “dynamic tension”, which protects and strengthens the joints. i’ve seen more than my share of beginners hurt themselves doing postures because they didn’t know that they were supposed to tense certain muscles to protect their joints. experts require less and less of this type of tension because their joints have been strengthened from years of practicing this way. just like in zhan zhuang, where after some practice, you can start to relax and still maintain your structure, without damaging any of your tendons and ligaments. also, some people take it to the extreme, pushing their bodies beyond what is needed for maximum benefit, simply because they can, or to show off.
on another note, some yoga postures are geared towards the spiritual, meaning that some postures are done because they are believed to stimulate the nadis (meridians) or awaken the shakti energy (basically qi from the dantien), and have nothing to do with stimulating the internal organs. to give an example, look at the common yogic gesture wherein you touch your thumb to your index. this is done because they believe that the index (or thumb, i forgot which) is the soul, and the other finger is the universal energy. i’ve seen iyengar do some crazy things with his legs to come into postures that seem to have more spiritual connotations than physical ones.
i’m in no position to comment on iyengar’s yoga, since i’ve never studied it. he and pattabhi jois, the current lineage holder of ashtanga yoga, had the same teacher though, and their yoga is very different from one another’s.
sorry if this doesn’t answer your question dave, but it’s hard to tell without seeing the pictures. and like i mentioned, not all yoga postures are geared for health. if i had to generalize, i would say though that hyperextension (with or without tension) should not be needed for the majority of the poses that work the physical body.
hope that helps.
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