…not likely. Oh sure, there’s this short clip of him doing the laojia yilu and this really short clip of him doing some paochui. But other than that, there is no footage of him on the web.
I say this because there is footage of him doing the full laojia yilu (at least) on a video tape that many different people have. But no one is willing to post it.
The reason is that Du laoshi was a VERY traditional guy. Apparently, he made all his students promise that they would NEVER perform what he taught them in public, let alone make the contents of this video public. Why would he do this? Probably the old “tou gungfu” (steal gongfu) idea. Many people didn’t want other people to see their gongfu because they thought that other people who had training could get some right ideas by watching. This is fairly common here in Taiwan, although very annoying.
Apparently, Adam Hsu performed what Du taught him in public once, and Du laoshi was very angry. That probably didn’t happen again while Du was alive.
So what does this mean? Have people changed things specifically to hide what they learned from Du or his students? Is what’s on Adam Hsu’s huleijia DVD what Du taught him? Not likely.
I ask some of these questions because I’ve trained with some people in the past from Du’s lineage, and they did good Chen style inside the school. Then I recently went to an hour long demo that they did and barely recognised what I saw. They had changed many details for the public performance. Did they do this to hide what they have because of this promise that Du made everyone make?
Videos of mainland Chen players appear on youtube almost daily and everyone’s opinion of Chen style is shaped by their exposure to those videos. The only video of the main man who brought Chen style to Taiwan can’t be shown because of a promise made in a completely different time.
Sigh.
8 responses so far ↓
1 Casey // Apr 17, 2007 at 1:27 am
This kind of thing is very frustrating. On the one hand, if one of my teachers told me never to talk about or demonstrate something I was taught, I would do my best considering the debt I owe them for trusting me enough to teach me something valuable and also just for the honesty of keeping one’s word.
On the other hand, if you have something really valuable that you know could be very helpful and informative to a lot of people working their butts off trying to learn these styles, it seems almost perverse not to share it. It’s kind of a catch-22.
Also, I think the whole secrets thing is definitely holding CMA back and even endangering its survival in the modern era. If people ask me why Kung Fu isn’t good enough to compete in MMA, I’m wont to say, “sure Kung fu is awesome, but not so awesome that even a watered-down, incomplete or purposely altered version of it will be good enough to defeat the strongest styles of other countries taught in an open, complete fashion.”
It seems this kind of thing is all pretty traditional–that is, with the teachers guarding their real fighting skills. I read a story in an article Ilya wrote on Mantis history about how famous Mantis master Liang Xuexiang had only two disciples and how after teaching them for many years he had still only taught them one form, one which was insufficient alone to make Mantis a complete art (Bazhou). One of his disciples had to literally beg him by kneeling outside his house for days to get him to transmit the whole system, which the disciple (Jiang Hualong), then secretly taught to his brother (Song Zide). They also bought the master a new house, openend a school and gave all the revenues to him until he died.
So, basically, some CMA masters can be really difficult about sharing info, considering it not only their trump card in terms of defending themselves, but also a livelihood. Some people get extremely upset over the idea of having their special chili recipe stolen… imagine how much more people might be reluctant to part with something like CMA… it’s human psychology, unfortunately…
All I can do is secretly hope people like Adam Hsu will continue to be iconoclasts, allowing the rest of us to see the materials they’ve had access to…
2 Robert A. Figler // Apr 17, 2007 at 8:23 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9rkhcv-xzc&feature=PlayList&p=176273552B11B3C9&index=0
Here is an above clip that has Du’s influence but was also changed.
I saw (I don’t have it, honestly) a clip of Adam Hsu doing Chen’s taiji at a closed Wu Tan demonstration. He was also teaching the applications.
Maybe because of age, but the clip does not have the flavor of what he currently has in his tapes. If I didn’t know it was Adam Hsu on the old clip, he could easily be mistaken for some of the current practitioners seen on youtube.
In the end, it is the practitioner who must ultimately own their form and practice.
3 Robert A. Figler // Apr 17, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Also, this guy’s form reminds me of the fajing expression I am familiar with but not the form exactly—some of it looks like the early Adam Hsu but without being as fancy so to speak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHbg3L45f7Q&feature=PlayList&p=176273552B11B3C9&index=18
4 chessman71 // Apr 17, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Bob,
The teacher in the first clip learned from Du’s first disciple in Kaoshiung. He claims to have learned from Du himself, but only took a couple of lessons. So yeah, he should have some of the flavor, but I do think he’s changed a lot. Can’t seem to get the second one to load, but I’ll take a look when I can.
5 Q // Apr 18, 2007 at 12:33 am
It kinda sucks but that’s his stuff. Probably wasn’t easy for him to get it himself so it’s understandable. I guess you just need to make sure not to let your students make the promise, then when you die he can release the info w/o any problems.
6 Hermann // Apr 20, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Dave, I’m sure you know who got the Du stuff over in Germany. Dietmar must have it, as he was one of the few foreigners who got the whole Du teachings.
But sharing publicly? Probably not!
7 Robert A. Figler // Apr 21, 2007 at 2:46 am
Also, editor and owner of Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Mike Demarco.
This secret shyt is going to kill what is left of tradtional Chinese martial arts in Taiwan, Wu Tan included!
8 Formosa Neijia - Exploring Chinese martial arts, spiritual practices and healing arts » Du Yu-ze on youtube! // Oct 13, 2007 at 10:02 am
[...] than we had before. This is a much longer clip of Du Yu-ze doing the laojia yilu. I have written before on how controversial this clip is. I’m surprised this much is up. I HIGHLY recommend that you [...]
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