I want to write a few posts on this subject because I keep bumping into it lately. It seems that some Chen people are doing their art in a very external fashion. This element of Chen practice needs to be explored a bit. So let’s start with the following quote from a great article that I suggest reading over at Gerald Sharp’s site. His take on Chen style might surprise some of you. I’ll write more on this in the coming week. (Bolds are mine)
This doesn’t mean that the external aspects of the Chen style have no value. For some, the external aspects must be fully understood before more intricate, subtle internal aspects can be appreciated. This process is more difficult at the outset if the motions are complicated. But the intricate details of the movements must be carefully examined for internal martial arts to be developed.
The focus on the external aspects of practice usually precludes any real investigation of the movements on this level of intricacy. The lack of intricacy that I speak of is associated with the inability to see the usefulness of the core inner practice by judging only the outer surface aspects of the practice. If something isn’t seen to be applicable immediately, then in this view it follows that it must be worthless nonsense. The truth is that some things take time. Understanding the value and usefulness of something can be a long, slow process. This is even more likely to be true when the basic notion initially seems counterintuitive - like the Taijiquan concept of using softness against hardness.My view is that what we’re seeing now in Chen Style is a return to the external, not a progression to higher level internal martial arts practice. This is not a local phenomenon, it is happening more and more on a world-wide scale. A new sort of Chen Style Taijiquan showmanship has emerged with excessive stamping of the feet, stylish excessive shaking, exterior, exotic twisting of the body, and an emphasis on fajing (explosive force) and gan (external force) over rou (softness). Not only does this run counter to the idea of Yin and Yang, in which one balances inner strength with outer softness, but it is at odds with many of the core principles of Taijiquan as written in the classic texts. These classic texts also claim that someone employing this sort of brute force approach is expected to have a real problem if they find themselves in conflict with someone well aquatinted with the internal aspects of Taijiquan.
15 responses so far ↓
1 Knismesis // Jan 14, 2007 at 10:57 pm
A very good point to bring up. The principles involved in internal styles require some thought and perseverance to understand and master. The abstract ideas within a style are things which a practioner must discover themselves regardless of how good their master is at teaching. It has to come from within.
It is not a far leap in imagination to suggest that some practioners through lack of patience might become satisfied with having only achieved the outward form of a style without gaining the essence. Should this thinking become predominant, what future is there for the style. It will die a slow death. Internal in name only but not in practice.
2 GrahamB // Jan 15, 2007 at 3:45 am
It’s peculiar that he chooses to end that article with:
“Furthermore, mixing martial arts is another huge mistake in the long run. Each complete martial art, external or internal, needs no mixing. Instead, what is needed is a commitment and perseverance to learn the essence of the art. Learning as much as possible about the many facets of a particular system is enough to fill many years.”
It’s odd when he teaches at least 3 martial arts according to his web site.
3 chessman71 // Jan 15, 2007 at 7:37 am
Graham,
Learning and teaching different martial arts doesn’t necessarily imply a willful mixing of them. Of course, they get mixed in your body due to the strengths that they build. But I think he’s talking of mixing methods. Perhaps he believes in having complete methods for each art that he teaches.
More to come on Chen as external.
4 Hermann Bohn // Jan 15, 2007 at 8:22 am
I’m very happy that people start to realize what is going on. There is a German researcher, who after 5 years of research in Beijing came to the conclusion, that none of the buddha worriors is doing real IMA, but that they all have choosen the exterior over the interior. For the sake of marketing?!
Hopefully, we will have a chance soon to read in detail this rather interesting paper.
5 Formosa Neijia - Exploring Taiwan’s Martial Arts » Chen style as external pt. 2 // Jan 15, 2007 at 2:10 pm
[...] Chen taiji as an external art [...]
6 Herb Rich // Jan 15, 2007 at 11:21 pm
“There is a german researcher…”
So what? There are hundreds of dillitante occidental historians making claims about CMA. I know you have a beef with chen village tai chi, but give it a break.
7 wujimon // Jan 16, 2007 at 1:03 am
Very interesting. I ran across this article a while ago but never really paid it too much thought b/c I felt I was truly learning the “internal” within chen taiji. However, all of my corrections seem to have been placed on “going lower” or “adjust my left hand 1 inch to the left” kind of thing.. Not too much internal about that.
However, on the flip side, I’ve been told these minute physical adjustments are required to allow for the flow of internal energy. Why then, is not this “tweaking” more common in other arts that are considered more internal like “yang/wu/hao/sun”, etc???
8 chessman71 // Jan 16, 2007 at 7:26 am
Hermann and Herb,
I would like to read the article if it ever becomes available in English. But I don’t know that I’d say that certain people aren’t teaching “internal” arts at all at this stage. But then I wouldn’t outright dismiss people as “dillitantes” without reading their work first, either.
To me, this is a bit of a complex argument that I hope to clear up in parts 2 and 3.
9 Hermann Bohn // Jan 16, 2007 at 8:31 am
Yes, Mr. Rich,
I’ll give it a break, but only after letting you know that I find it rather amazing that someone making 8 Mill US$ a year teaching cannot be questioned in any way. That financial statement I heared form one of the big masters in person in April 06.
Critics must be banned, thank you!
PS: Chen-Taijiquan is really great, but not the government controlled business machine!
10 Chong // Jan 16, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Non of the buddha worriors (CXW,CZL, WXA and ZTC) live, teach or based in Beijing. The one that make the most money, I heard, is one of the 4 Warriors son who make it by being a loan shark and not Tai Chi, in Hennan.
There is an interesting article on written by GMaster Sun Lu Tang in regards to the differences in Internal and External arts, and can be found here :
http://forum.chen-taiji.com/index.php?topic=21.0
chong
http://www.chen-taiji.com
11 wujimon // Jan 16, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Hi Hermann.
I’ve heard one of the big 4 requires about $15,000 (US) per weekend seminar, irregardless of the number of attendants. Note, I believe all food and lodging is expected to also be covered by the hosts. While it’s not $8M, it’s still a pretty nice figure.
12 Hermann Bohn // Jan 16, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Wujimon,
I really heard it myself, here in Taiwan, one of them bragged that he made the 8 mill (all in all) in 2005, travelling the world, selling his products. Never to question his external-internal gongfu, but …?!
Gongrats, that’s really the way.
13 herb rich // Jan 16, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Hermann:
Who says someone cannot be questioned? Not me. Who cares how much money someone makes? (good luck with your sword business, by the way).
BTW, you were not banned, if thats what you were referring to.
You’ve got quite a chip on your shoulder. Good luck with that.
14 Hermann Bohn // Jan 17, 2007 at 7:31 am
Herb,
I can’t visit the chen-stite anymore, even not as a silent reader. It says:
You ware banned.
15 Formosa Neijia - Exploring Taiwan’s Martial Arts » Chen style as external pt.3 // Mar 6, 2007 at 7:34 am
[...] style as external pt.3 By chessman71 Parts one and [...]
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