What follows is a series of long posts about the Imperial Yang form (the pre-Yang Cheng-fu version of the Yang family large frame) that were prompted by the following two clips. The comments were made by Sifu Gary Stier over at EF in this thread.
I think the large frame shown in the clips is excellent. I like it even better than the VCDs I have of Li Ya-xuan’s student doing their version. The transitions here are done more correctly IMO. I felt that Li’s students were actually doing the frame in such a large way as compromise the form. This form below seemed to have more of a Chen flavor to some people, prompting many to note that this was perhaps how the Yangs practiced in the pre-Cheng-fu days. I also notice that the pacing is a bit different. So enjoy the clips and the info on pre-Cheng-fu Yang style.
The Chinese moderator states that Sifu Liu is performing the so-called ‘Improved Large Frame Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan’ of Sifu Yang Cheng-Fu, but it is sytlistically different in appearance from the ‘Standard’ which has been taught by the Yang Family since Master Cheng-Fu’s death.
The sequence of the postures is essentially the same as the Yang Cheng-Fu Form Set, but many of the transitional movements connecting the named and numbered postures are performed differently, and the forward leaning demonstrated is more typical of the Wu/Ng Style modification of the older ‘Yang Large Frame Long Imperial 108 Form Set’ that Wu learned from Yang Pan-Hou Sifu. I don’t know Master Liu’s background, but it looks like he may have learned and practiced the Wu/Ng Style Tai-Chi Chuan at some point in the past, as elements of that style appear evident in his performance of the Yang Cheng-Fu Set.
I agree with your comments for the most part. I, too, have observed considerable stylistic variety among Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan practitioners. In fact, it often seems as if there are as many different ‘interpretations’ of the ‘Yang Style’ as there are teachers thereof! There appears to be less continuity in the stylistic interpretation of the postures among Yang Style practitioners than there is among practitioners of the other major Tai-Chi Chuan styles…..generally speaking.
In regards to the leaning, the larger or heavier, and more powerfully built Masters, such as Yang Cheng-Fu, were noted for their greater ‘economy of motion’ in the use of footwork and stances, probably due to their greater size, and known to have a marked preference for generating and issuing the ‘external power’ of their techniques by driving the body weight forward from the rear leg, oftentimes straightening the rear leg at the completion of the forward weight shift for maximum efficiency.
Simultaneously, the upper body might be inclined forward until a straight line was established by the spine and rear leg connecting the heel of the rear foot with the crown of the head to insure that no body weight power externally or chi flow internally would become impeded or obstructed at the waist while moving from the floor to the hands.
This external force issuing technique was already in use in the older Yang Style applications of postures for fighting and for Tui-Shou, but not usually demonstrated in the older Form Sets as it often is in the Sets of Yang Cheng-Fu or Wu Chien-Chuan.
The earlier generations of ‘Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan’ were smaller men than Cheng-Fu, with more slenderly built and lighter weighted bodies, who preferred to generate and issue ‘external power’ through more frequent, agile, and quick changes of stance and footwork in which the body weight is lowered onto the lead leg foot with the completion of forward weight transfer in ‘Large Frame’ stances by deeply bending both knees, reflecting their Chen Style influences, or by dropping the body weight with sudden ‘heavy treading’ when using ‘Small Frame’ stances. In both instances, the upper body is kept vertically aligned most of the time when performing the older Yang Style Form Sets.
Although most modern day practitioners merely imitate the way they see their teacher demonstrate the Form Sets, rather than using what works best for them, the differences were originally due to personal preferences in form frame structure and usage by the Form Set creators. Both styles have produced unbeatable Masters, so we can’t say that either idea is necessarily better than the other, but rather just different ways of achieving the same goals…..fast, decisive neutralizations and counter-measures.
Yang Cheng-Fu’s ‘Modified Large Frame Tai-Chi Chuan Form Set’ is officially listed as containing 85 Form Postures in his Chinese language book. Some teachers of this Set have reworked the posture name and number list to extend the list to 108 forms in order to associate Cheng-Fu’s Style with the the famous older ‘Large Frame Long Imperial 108 Form Set’, and similarly calling it the ‘Yang Style Long Form’. Cheng-Fu’s Set is a modification of this older set, with fewer different postures overall, with repetitions of some postures deleted, and is performed with a generally slower, more even speeded, different ’stylistic interpretation’ by removing the ‘Fa-Jing’ or ‘Power Issuing’ at a faster speed on the obvious punches and kicks. It has a different ’signature appearance’ than the older Large Frame and Small Frame Yang Style Sets do.
The ‘Wu Chien-Chuan Style Set’ is also a modification of the older ‘Large Frame Long Imperial 108 Form Set’. It, too, differs in the stylistic interpretation of the Form Postures, in the transitional movements connecting them, and in the sequential order of the postures seen in the older ‘Long Imperial Set’. In each case, these Modified Styles follow the sequence of the ‘Yang Long Imperial 108 Set’ in some parts of the Set, but with obvious differences in sequence in other places. As a result, each of these respective ’styles’ can ‘feel’ quite different in practice to those who are experienced enough to discern the qualitative nuances energetically.
One of the major differences between these newer, modified Form Sets and the Long Imperial Form Set is that the older Set exclusively uses applicationally functional, circular transitional movements, reflecting it’s agenda priority as a soft-style, internal kung-fu style, rather than a ‘health exercise’ or ‘meditation in motion’ priority. I view this as an important difference in agenda priorities, because most of the major defensive hands and evasion techniques are contained in the transitional movements traditionally, whereas the named and numbered postures are generally counter-offense applications by comparison.
The ‘Old Frame Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan’ traditionally presented the ‘Large Frame Long Imperial 108 Form Set’ as a ‘public Tai-Chi’ which was taught to members of the Imperial Family within the Forbidden City when Master Yang Lu-Chan was employed as Director of the Divine Skills Battallion, the Security Guards for the Forbidden City complex, and served as personal bodyguard for the Emperor and other members of the Imperial Family. The ‘Long Imperial 108′ was thereafter also taught at various public classes outside the Forbidden City, and became the most widely practiced and popular Tai-Chi Chuan Set both in China and abroad due to the fame of the first four Yang Family Masters…i.e. Yang Lu-Chan, Yang Pan-Hou, Yang Chien-Hou, and Yang Shao-Hou. They were all peerless fighters with extraordinary internal power skills who were never defeated by anyone of any style. No successive member of Yang’s family can make the same claim, even though they have rarely fought by comparison, especially since Yang Cheng-Fu’s death.
Generally speaking, those who practice and teach a genuine ‘Old Yang Style Large Frame Long Imperial 108 Forms Set’ can be found to perform the same Set, with the same sequential arrangement of the postures, and with mostly the same names…given a bit of latitude in translating these names into English, German, French, Spanish, or whatever from the original Chinese characters. The only variations usually encountered will appear in the way that the transitional movements are performed between the named and numbered postures, and perhaps a bit of variation in the stylistic appearance of the movement patterns.
These latter variables, transitional movements and stylistic appearance, are often the result of the length of time that a particular practitioner took formal instruction and the level of skill they developed during their studies. This is because the Old Masters often taught more simplistic transitional movements to novice and intermediate level students, which were easier for them to learn and incorporate in their Form Set. As these methods of transition were mastered, more complex and functional patterns of circularity were introduced into the transitions.
In this way, since there was no karate-like colored belt ranking system, it was usually easy for other teachers, and other more advanced practitioners, to determine the approximate length of study and the approximate level of experience of any practitioner by observing how these connecting movements were performed, aside from the overall appearance of their performance.
Additionally, the inclusion or exclusion of ‘fa-jing’ applications on the obvious punching and kicking techniques, and how the ‘fa-jing’ was performed when included, also gave further indications of overall study time, training experience, and skill level.
When I began training the ‘Long Imperial Set’ in the 1960’s, many older Masters having direct learning and training experience with the early Yang Family Masters, including my own Sifu, were still alive and teaching the ‘Long Imperial 108 Set’. So it was possible at that time to compare what I was learning from my own Sifu with how other Masters and their students were performing the same Form Sets. Chinese Lunar New Year Demonstrations in the local Chinese communities were always a prime opportunity in this regard, since most Masters were rather reclusive and secretive at other times of the year, except among their own students and club members.
Most modern day ‘Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan’ teachers and practitioners are now promoting Master Yang Cheng-Fu’s Form Set, rather than the Old Style Large Frame and Small Frame Sets of the earlier Yang Style. Since the Old Masters are now either deceased, or have ‘closed their hands’….i.e. are no longer giving instruction to anyone, and are now living in retirement, it is more difficult to find genuine ‘Old Yang Style’ these days.
Virtually everything I come across claiming to be ‘Old Yang Style’ or ‘Yang Long Form’ is either the Yang Cheng-Fu ‘Modified Large Frame 85 Forms Set’ or the ‘Kuang Ping Style Set’.
The current Yang Family Masters, and their Association, have promoted only Master Cheng-Fu’s Set for the past 70 years since his death before WWII. At this point in time, four generations of the Yang Family have been taught only this Set, and none other. Their ‘marketing strategy’ has been to insist that Cheng-Fu’s Form Set is ‘the only Authentic and Official Traditional Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan’!!! Since they obviously don’t have the older stuff anymore, this is probably a good ploy.
In the earlier years following WWII, such claims were still a bit awkward because a sizeable number of active practitioners and teachers were still alive who had learned the ‘Old Frame’ or ‘Old Style’ Sets from one or more of the first four great Yang Masters. But as the years roll by, more and more of these folks either retire totally from teaching in their advanced years, my own Sifu included, or die….often without having found even one worthy student who was willing to make the efforts required to inherit a truly remarkable soft style/internal martial art system which contains material of awesome potential that is second to none……just like its creators!
It’s kind of ironic that when the general population of China was finally given the opportunity to learn the martial arts of their choice…..without being born into style’s biological family or without having to be wealthy enough to study privately at great expense……the overwhelming majority chose ‘Yang Style Tai-Chi Chuan’. This overwhelming choice was directly linked to the well deserved fame of the first four Yang Masters. People wanted to learn and practice what those guys practiced. I totally understand…….me, too! My initial reaction was….”Well, damn…..I’m down for that! Where do I sign up, man?”
Is that what they got? HELL NO! Instead, they got ‘Simplified 24 Forms Tai-Chi Chuan’….often billed as the ‘Yang Short Form’…..and other ‘Combined Forms Tai-Chi Chuan’ which shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath as the material practiced by the Old Yang Masters! The consolation prize apparently has been the more open, public teaching of Cheng-Fu’s ‘Modified Large Frame 85 Forms Set’……cleverly renumbered to stretch the original name list of 85 postures out to 108, and then referred to as the ‘Yang Style 108 Form’ or the ‘Yang Style Long Form’. This deliberately causes confusion by attaching the Cheng-Fu Set to name terminology previously used exclusively in reference to the older ‘Large Frame Long Imperial 108 Form Set’, which Cheng-Fu’s Set it definitely IS NOT!
This is a case of flagrant martial art ‘Identity Theft’, which IMO is constantly exposed by the mere fact that those who have devoted their lives to practicing Cheng-Fu’s Set, even within the Yang Family, have not been able to duplicate the skills of earlier Generations of the Yang Family.
Why not? Simple…..they are not training the same body of material quantitatively as the earlier generations did, and are not practicing qualitatively in the same stylistic manner to boot, either internally or externally, so far as I can tell.
Too bad really! A lost inheritance is always sad!










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